Nicola Gelormino (00:00):
Do you want more referrals? Who doesn't? We've got tips for you on how to attract more referrals for your business on this edition of the Inside BS Show. Hey, now I'm Nicki G. This is the Inside BS Show. I'm here with my partner Dave Lorenzo, the godfather of Growth. Dave, how are you?

Dave Lorenzo (00:22):
Hey, now, Nicki GI am absolutely fabulous. How are you today?

Nicola Gelormino (00:26):
I am absolutely fabulous as well. I really enjoy talking about how to help others attract more referrals for their business, and that's what we're going to dive into today.

Dave Lorenzo (00:38):
I think you're right. We are going to talk about how to get more referrals. So when we talk about referrals, one of the things I hear all the time is, Hey, Dave, I don't get enough referrals. What can I do to get more referrals? And I say, well, how many people did you ask for a referral this week? And you know what? I get back, I get back like blank stares. They just look at me like, duh. Tip number one in attracting more referrals is simply tell people that you want referrals. I can't tell you how many times, dozens and dozens of times each year, people come up to me and they're like, Hey, I sent something to somebody else. And I say, well, why didn't you send that to me? And they say, I didn't know that would be something you would want to work on.

(01:17):
So everybody who's a client of yours, everybody who's a friend of yours, everybody who's a relative of yours should know what you do, why you do it, and how to describe it to someone else. And they should also know that you are a business grows as a result of connecting with and being referred to other people. So when I meet someone who is working right in an industry where I know they'll know my ideal clients, I say to them, Hey, Mr. Client, do you ever come across people who look like this or work in this role, in this type of company? And they say, sure. And I say to them, well, if you think of it, I would love introductions to those people and here's the reason why. And then I give them my value proposition. I can help them get more options from their business when they're ready to exit. I help them with their business strategy while they're building their business so they have more options when they're ready to exit. So I've given them the name of the person or the position, the person's in the industry they're in, and the reason why. And I've told them that my business grows as a result of referrals. I tell them that that's the number one way I get my top clients. So telling people you want referrals is step one. What do you think Nicki G?

Nicola Gelormino (02:33):
Yes. If you do not ask, you will not receive. And I am talking about both with your clients and other referral partners. If people do not know that you would like to receive more work or introductions, they're not going to be thinking of you. I am saying that from personal experience. Clients are almost surprised sometimes when you ask them to send you another matter by letting them know, look, I've done excellent work for you. I really would like to speak to you about this other area of your business. I've seen that there's some work there that really aligns with what I do well. And you immediately receive a response along the lines of, oh, I didn't realize that that was something that you did, or I didn't realize that that was something you would want to handle. They're not focused on you. And again, with clients and other referral partners, they're just not focused on you unless they know that you're out looking for referrals. You've got to speak up and say that. Don't be shy about it. If you are not asking, people are not thinking about you, or they might think you have so much work, you're not asking for more. So don't be shy. Be sure to ask.

Dave Lorenzo (03:37):
Why don't you jump right into tip number two?

Nicola Gelormino (03:39):
Let me jump right into tip number two. Give referrals and have an external orientation. We have talked about this before. You have got to deliver value before seeking to receive value for yourself. That's an external orientation. You want people to know that you are not just in this for yourself. You want to provide value to others and have good relationships with them. So making sure that you're focused on providing referrals to others and making key introductions is going to help you do that. People will think of you as someone who is a giver and not just someone who's looking out for their own best interest and seeking to obtain a referral or an introduction from them.

Dave Lorenzo (04:19):
Here's the thing, I have a three-to-one ratio in mind. I will give the best possible referrals I can to someone three times without ever expecting anything in return after the third time. I'll ask them for a specific introduction to a specific person, usually after time number one or time number two, or definitely after time number three, they'll say, thank you so much for that great referral, Dave. I really appreciate what you've done for me. And my response to them is always, it's my pleasure. I know you do the same for me. It's my pleasure. I know you would do the same for me. And you know what they say, Nicki G. They say, of course I would. And then when they say, of course I would, I say, would you like to hear who I'd like to meet? And at that point, what are they going to say?

(05:03):
They'd say, of course, I'd love to hear who you want to meet. And then you tell them someone that you saw their connected to on LinkedIn or someone they play golf with or someone belongs to their crochet club with them or whatever it is. You want to meet somebody specific and you ask for that specific introduction. That's how you segue from giving referrals into receiving referrals. I recommend you give two or three times before you ask them for something in return. But if they say to you, thank you so much for that referral, I really appreciate it. You should feel completely comfortable saying, it's my pleasure. I know you do the same for me. Nicki G, let's say you.

Nicola Gelormino (05:42):
I like doing that, Dave, because people are often so appreciative that you've given them a referral that they want to help you in return. And they often will ask. And if they don't, that's a great way to just raise the issue to let them know, Hey, I'm open to referrals as well. So I really like that approach that you've suggested. I do think that you shouldn't lead with asking for referral ever because that's your chance to establish a new relationship and someone is going to immediately make the assumption that you're only in it for you. So it's important that we mention that in the approach is that to make sure you are portrayed as someone who is a giver, as someone who has that external orientation, make sure that you don't immediately ask for a referral and that you're really focused on delivering value to others.

Dave Lorenzo (06:30):
Yep. I think you're right. Again, Nicki GI feel like I say that an awful lot because you're right an awful lot. Okay, point number three or tip number three or whatever you want to say. Number three is make a referral a requirement. Now, this is something that I do, and when I told Nicki G about this, she was like, you do what? But it really is something that I do. I sit down with a client and we're ready to start our work together and we're going over our engagement agreement. And they notice that in the engagement agreement, it says, I get compensated in two ways. The first way I receive compensation is through financial remuneration. They pay me for the consulting work I do with them, and I like to be paid. But the second thing that they do that's compensation for me is if they feel like I've gone above and beyond, if they're really happy with the level of service they've received, if I provide an exceptional experience for them and they get value that far exceeds what they've invested financially, they agree to connect me with other people who they know who could potentially use my services.

(07:37):
And I say this when we go over the engagement agreement, I say it throughout the course of the engagement, and then I ask for the referrals at the end of our time together. I make the referrals seem like they're a requirement and they're part of the compensation I receive. If somebody asks me, and it's happened a couple of times where people have asked me and they've said, listen, Dave, you keep asking or you're telling me about these referrals. I don't understand why this is part of the the requirement. And I tell them one of the ways I can keep my prices as low as they are, and it's a joke because I charge a lot of money. One of the ways I can keep my prices as low as they are is by not advertising and not incurring the expense of having to advertise to acquire new customers.

(08:23):
My business grows almost entirely by word of mouth and you helping me grow by word of mouth are doing yourself a favor by keeping the costs down so that I don't have to invest in advertising. Again, I do this totally tongue in cheek because they're already paying a significant amount of money because they're getting a significant value, and I'm also asking them for referrals in return. We have a great laugh about it and nine times out of 10, they connect me with somebody. It's fantastic. It works like a charm. So Nicki G, you are a conservative lawyer. You don't do anything that would ever make someone look at you and say, wow, or question your professionalism. Let's say, how do you feel about this strategy?

Nicola Gelormino (09:11):
When I first heard it, I was a little hesitant, but sometimes when you let it sink in, you might think about it a different way. And here's what I really like about what you just said. You mentioned it upfront, but that wasn't the only time you mentioned it. You mentioned it throughout the relationship. And then again, at the end you asked, so you aren't just coming out and putting this in an engagement letter saying, pay me, here's the amount that I charge and also provide me with a referral fill in the blank. You are begging this into your services so that you are very clear that you would like to receive a referral as part of the compensation package that you're receiving for the value that you're providing. So I like that you've communicated that to the client throughout, so it's not a surprise. So by the time the end of the relationship comes or the end of the project that you're working on, it's a very natural conversation at that point.

(09:58):
And I will tell you that I spend time speaking with other attorneys about different topics, and this conversation came up recently in the context of raising the rates. And I heard a great suggestion, and it was along these same lines that we're talking about now, which is that I let them know upfront in the engagement letter, I discuss it throughout the representation, and then I invite them to have a sit down meeting with me close to the end of the year, and I'll raise my rates every year, but it's not coming out of the blue for the person on the other end. You've been notifying the client about this. You've been regularly raising the issue so that it's a natural conversation at the point in time when you'd like to have it. So I do like it. That may surprise you.

Dave Lorenzo (10:39):
Great. I like that. You like it, Nicki G, that's fantastic. Alright, now tip number four is, well, it's something that Nicole is going to cover with you right now, Nicki G, what's tip number four?

Nicola Gelormino (10:52):
Tip number four is to ask for someone specific. Here is why this is important. You can ask for a referral and another person may be very willing to give that referral to you, but if they introduce you to the wrong contact for you at that particular company, for example, that's not a helpful referral. You might have to get through two or three more people to get to the decision maker who can hire you for your services. So using an example, a great referral source for me is an in-house attorney at a company, whether an associate general counsel or general counsel, that's a great introduction for me. But if I simply say, can you introduce me to company X, Y, Z, and I'm introduced to someone at the business level, that's great, but I still have several people to get through to get to the person who would be willing to consider my services and would have the ability to retain me to provide legal services. So make sure you have a specific ask. I would like to meet the general counsel of this company, or if you're on the business side, I would love to be introduced to the business development director for company, or you work with executive level professionals. I'd love an introduction to CEO or the CFO of the company. Be specific to make sure that the person who can help you is going to put you in the right place so that you have the best shot at getting a new opportunity.

Dave Lorenzo (12:11):
I think you're spot on. Again, Nicki G, here's what I tell people to do. When you're going to ask for a referral, you need to include this information, the name of a person you want to meet, the position they hold the company, they hold that position in the industry that company's in. And the reason why, those are the five things. The name of the person, the position they hold, the company name, the industry, and the reason why, if they don't know a specific person, they may know somebody who holds that title in a different company. If they don't know the person or someone with the title, they may know someone in that specific company. They don't know the person, they don't know the title, they don't know someone in that company. They may know somebody in that industry or any combination thereof. And as we discussed prior, the reason why is essential because if I'm going to introduce you to one of my best clients, it better be a compelling reason why I'm introducing them to you.

(13:03):
I don't just want to introduce Nicole because well, she's a good lawyer and you should meet another good lawyer. I want to introduce Nicola because she's the best lawyer to handle a creditor's rights case for your company. That's the reason why I want to introduce her to you and articulating that reason is essential. So those five things, again, the name of the person, the position they hold, the company name, the industry they're in, and the reason why Nicki. Jean, what do you want to talk about related to this? What do you have to say related to

Nicola Gelormino (13:35):
This? I want to pick up on one point you just made, Dave, which is that when you're asking someone to make that referral and you're being specific about it, think about this. They're putting their reputation on the line to introduce you to an excellent client of theirs. So make sure that you're being very specific about what you do and each of the points that they have mentioned because you don't want to also put that person in a bad position if it wasn't the right introduction. And that falls on you as the person asking for that. Do your homework, be thoughtful about it. Understand that the person who's going to make that referral is putting their reputation on the line and doing so. You want to make sure that they look good when they're making that referral and you look good and being able to be contacted with the person that's going to be the best fit for what you're able to provide.

Dave Lorenzo (14:19):
All right. Now tip number five for you. When asking for referrals is when somebody's just absolutely stumped. Here's what you do. You say, I'll settle for a letter of recommendation, and then you basically write out what the letter of recommendation will look like and say, put this in your own words. I would love to put this on your letterhead and have you sign it and I can use it on my behalf when I go make introductions to people who've never met me before. I get these from all my clients. If you don't mind, just give me a quick letter of recommendation and I would really appreciate it. And if you ever do think of somebody that you can refer me to, it would be great. You know what happens about half the time, Nicole? Half the time when I ask for those letters of recommendation as they're writing them, they think of somebody they can introduce me to. So I get the letter of recommendation and I get the referral. So it works out great. I know that you're a little shy about asking for the letters of recommendation. You don't particularly care for that, and I can tell by your face that you don't care for the fact that I just brought that up. So tell us, Nicki G, why don't you like letters of recommendation?

Nicola Gelormino (15:24):
I think for me it's just, it's in my space because I work with a lot of, in-house lawyers, they have very limited time, so I like to limit my asks to them. So I'd rather not ask for a formal letter of recommendation, but asking for instead a short, for lack of a better word for it, a testimonial about the services. I provide some type of feedback that's great that I can attribute to them and I can share their name in the company. That's very powerful. So it's the same tool but viewed a different way. I'll ask for just a shorter soundbite where that can be used and shared with other clients or potential clients for me.

Dave Lorenzo (16:00):
So how about this? What if you said to that general counsel, Mr. General Counsel, I know your time is precious and I normally would ask for a letter of recommendation. Now I'm not going to do that with you. I know you have a limited amount of time, so you've given him an opening to say, no, no, no, I have plenty of time. Nicole, I'll do the letter for you. Would it be okay if I use you as a reference when I'm going to get future work? Would that be okay? How do you feel about that? Nicole?

Nicola Gelormino (16:23):
Love asking to use them for a reference that does not take that much time, and that is incredibly powerful, especially coming from someone you just did a great job for and is a company that they would know in the market.

Dave Lorenzo (16:35):
So use that scripting though. I would normally ask for a letter of recommendation. Now, I don't want to take up a lot of your time, so I'm not going to do that here. So you open the door for them to say, oh no, no, Nicola, you're so special. I will take time out of my day to write a glowing letter of recommendation for you. So if they do, you're set. But when they say thank you for that, Nicola, you say, no problem. I just ask that I can use your name as a reference so that when I'm talking to people about future work, I can tell them to call you and you may give them your opinion of the work that I did for you here. So that's the script there. Instead of saying, Hey, give me a referral, or Hey, give me a letter of recommendation. Let me use your name. Now, you're not going to drop their name at the restaurant so you get a better seat. You're going to use their name when you're coming up against a difficult situation and you really want to land that big client.

Nicola Gelormino (17:27):
Great suggestion. Dave's giving you a lot of great tips today. This is why you are so great at this.

Dave Lorenzo (17:32):
That's why they call me the godfather of growth, Nicki G. All right, close this out.

Nicola Gelormino (17:36):
All right. If you enjoy today's show and the tips that we've shared, be sure to tune in again tomorrow and do us a favor, share our show with someone in your network that you think might enjoy it. Because as you know, we don't have sponsorships yet, so we'd love for you to share the show so we can increase our listeners. Until tomorrow, I'm Nicki G and you are

Dave Lorenzo (18:01):
The godfather of Growth Table. Loren Enzo.

Nicola Gelormino (18:04):
Thanks for joining us.

Dave Lorenzo (18:05):
Goodbye.