Hey now, welcome to the inside BS show. My name is Dave Lorenzo. I'm the Godfather of growth.

And today we've got a really interesting opportunity for you. We're going to talk to someone who has started and built her own business and is currently managing a business while building her own personal brand. And we're going to hear all about how that enhances what she's doing.

I am really excited to have this discussion today. And you should be excited regardless of whether you're a professional or you're a business owner, because everything we talk about today is applicable to a broad spectrum of people in our audience. Before we get started, let me bring in my partner in business and my partner on the show, Nicola Gellarmino.

Hey Nikki G, how are you today? Hi Dave, I'm doing great. How are you? I am doing absolutely fantastic. And you know, it is kind of a struggle for me to try and figure out what I'm going to do for like our opening banter, our opening back and forth, because what I want to do is I want to kind of get you and our guest in the right mindset.

And one of the things I was thinking about today is, so our guest today, you and I actually have had, I will call it an extensive interaction because we generally don't interact with the guests ahead of time. We may know them, we may be friends with them, but you and I actually at a, at a networking event, which was kind of a unique networking event, got to spend time with our guest and her husband and they were delightful. It was absolutely fantastic.

And because we did that and we did our preparation separate, I don't have notes today. I'm not using notes. It's going to be a, you know, kind of a free flowing conversation for me.

So that means I don't really need to wear my glasses unless I need to look at the control panel. I want to ask you, because you are the ultimate, like stealth, bad eyesight person, nobody knows when they first meet you. And I didn't know, I don't think for like three or maybe even four months that, that your, your eyesight is basically the equivalent of like Stevie Wonder or Ray Charles.

Like you are, you are flat out blind. What do you do? How do you manage that? So that, you know, you come off as like, nobody would ever know, like, I've never seen you with glasses on. So how do you manage this situation? Here? I thought we were going to talk about the pasta making class that we were at with Yara and her husband, which was awesome, by the way, for our audience.

I highly recommend doing it. Instead, unfortunately, we're talking about my eyesight. So how do I manage this? I've been dealing with this my entire life.

I was that child in grade school, probably fifth grade. I already had eyeglasses. I had contacts by sixth grade.

So I've been managing that from that day forward and I wanted to play sports. So there was, the options were where the rec specs, which strap around your head. I don't know if you remember those, but these big goggles are strapped around your head.

And I thought I cannot play sports wearing those. So we got to figure out this kind of situation. So I did.

And wearing contacts has been fine. I've been doing this for so long. I don't really think about it, but I will say this.

If I'm at the office, say I'm working and I lose a contact, I will not drive home. So my eyesight is that bad, but there's no closing one eye and driving home. There is like taking an Uber and then figuring out that situation because my eyesight is really that bad.

And then oftentimes I'll be, you know, if at night I'll wear my glasses and I have had concerns before, what happens if you have to run out of the house in the middle of the night? I would literally be hand on the wall, walking along, trying to get outside. I, I, so I will tell you that a couple of things just went through my mind. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to cut away to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar when he was playing with his, with his goggles on, I want to cut away into this because that's what Nicola looked like with her quote unquote rec specs on playing sports as a kid.

The other thing that completely and totally, well, before we get to the thing that completely and totally disturbs me about what you just said, the, the thing that I would love to see is you losing a contact in the office and then having to put on like a pirate eye patch, like a vast G matey walking down the hall. That would be amazing. I would that I would pay good money to see that.

Now, here's the thing that's really disturbing to me. So Nicola wakes up in the middle of the night and an intruder comes into her house and she only has seconds to reach for one thing. Does she reach for the eyeglasses or the handgun? Either way, either answer is completely disturbing to me because if she reaches for the eyeglasses, there's no way she's defending herself.

If she reaches for the handgun, she's shooting holes everywhere, never hitting the guy who's probably in the middle of the six people she sees. So I'll leave you folks with that thought. Let's move on.

Nicola, tell us who our guest is. And then let's bring our guest on while people have the, the vision of you in an eye patch with a puffy shirt and a handgun running down the hall of your house. Well, I will tie this because I think we have to, I will tie this somehow to what we're going to speak about with our guests, which is that you have to be proactive and manage whatever it is in your life that may be holding you back.

And that's why we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics today with an expert, which is insurance. Business owners, please listen up because this is such an important topic and I see so many errors in this space. So let's go ahead and bring on our expert.

Our expert today is joining us on the show is Ciara Gravier. She is the founder and CEO of The Bunker insurance and risk management firm. Hi Ciara, welcome to the show.

First of all, first of all, thank you for having me on. How fun. Second of all, if you would have told Jordan during our pasta making class that you wore Rex specs, he would have died because so did he.

And he's also pretty, pretty hard of seeing in the morning. Like if his eyes are open, he's reaching for his glasses. Like he has, and he almost gets like a sense of anxiety if his eyes are open and he can't see.

Like instant glasses, instant. And so it's so funny because he used to do the Rex spec things because he was in power lifting and in sports. And so I actually have the visual of both of you wearing it.

So that's number one. Number two, anytime he's wearing contacts, he brings his glasses with him everywhere because the gloss, the contacts pop out of his eyes. So Nicole, my question to you is how do you just not carry your glasses around with you? Like in case the contacts pop out.

I really don't like wearing glasses. The hardest part for me is because I've worn contacts for so many years. It's getting in a car and driving with the sun, right.

And then plus no peripheral vision. It's mostly the lack of peripheral vision that really gets me because I feel dizzy. I don't know how to manage that.

Cause I'm not used to wearing glasses when I'm at the daytime and I'm outside. So I'd rather just not do it. I mean, that's commitment though.

Like, well, I guess it's not commitment. The fact that you wouldn't be able to drive home. So I would just, you know, have extra spare, spare contacts on me at all times.

But yeah, no, I live with someone that goes through that. So I know it very well. But, um, yeah, pasta making class was great.

We had so much fun. Um, and yeah, thanks for having me on guys. I'm excited.

I'm excited to be here. And I love what you guys are doing for, um, you know, small businesses and it's very important what you guys do. So thanks.

Well, we're really excited about this. And usually I would start with your background, which we'll get to, but I wanted to start somewhere else today because this stood out to me and still does from our first conversation together, Sarah, which is your approach to insurance. One of the things you said to me that really resonated was I will not work with clients at the bunker unless they provide a two-year commitment.

Tell our audience why that is. So obviously people hate paying for insurance, right? We understand that it's like the worst thing you could pay for from a business owner or even personally, right? Like it's a line item that you're paying for all of your life. Most of us, thankfully, never really have to use it for giant catastrophes.

Right. So thankfully, um, so you're just constantly, it's an expense that you're paying for and you never use, but when you actually finally have to use it, you want to make sure that it's done right for the risk that it needs to be done. For right.

So in it, especially in South Florida, we're such a price sensitive community. And rightfully so, right. We're paying very high premiums for property insurance.

The fraud is through the roof here more than anywhere, probably in the country. I know we used to lead it. I don't know if we still do, probably still do.

So I understand that the consumers are exhausted from insurance and paying for premiums, but I cannot do my job well. And I don't want to do my job for the person that is looking to just save a hundred dollars for the year. It's what we do and the way we do it.

It's far too time consuming for my team. And, and we realized that sometimes we, you just can't care more than the person cares, right? Like if you're not interested, um, in having a conversation, if you can't give me 30 minutes of your time to understand your company, to understand where you're going, what your risks are, I can't do my job well. And then when your claim isn't covered, it's my fault.

So, you know, it's not like you're signing it in blood that they have to give me two years, but I just want them to feel a different experience from the beginning. Like, I'm looking for a partnership here. I want to go where you go.

I want to help you grow. I want to work with the people that understand that while you have to pay insurance, there's also a way to use it to, as a tool to grow your business and to be prepared for bigger opportunities. If we kind of just change the narrative around it, you know, it's a better experience for both of us.

So, um, it's, it's hurtful for business owners to reshop the market every year anyways, right? On average, unless you've had astronomical growth or a massive claim, the increases that business owners are having are outside of property, right? We know that in South Florida, the property rates are wild and on, on, they're all over the place, but outside of the property, the rate, the rate increases on, on the general liability on the cyber is on the, there is no rate increases on the comp and keeps going down, right? Like if you're running a clean business, they're usually manageable. So I'm not, I'm not reshopping you just because you're upset that your insurance went up $300 for the year, right? When you, when you're running a med spa, injecting people with stuff, right? So it's a conversation of, of kind of just getting a feel for the business owner as well, so that they understand that we're not the regular insurance agency either. That's just looking to copy what you currently have without asking you questions about your business.

And it's, it's worked very well initially. Like it was kind of hard for us to say, even just to voice it and take that position, but it has weeded out a lot of the people that are just looking to save a couple bucks. Yeah.

And I'm so glad that you explained this the way that you did, because I have working as a commercial litigator, seeing so many instances where business owners came to me, dumped all their policies over and none of them covered the loss because no one truly sat down and understood what is it that this business is doing and where are the high risk areas of the business. It's one thing to just have insurance. It's another to work with someone like you who understands what really are the areas of risk in your business and what do you need to be able to cover them? And to do so proactively, not just shop the market once a year, speak to your agent once a year and work down your premium, because there are real risks there, but if you're not appreciating that and viewing insurance as a commodity and a price point, then it's just not going to help you when you need it the most in case something does happen.

And I think that, I think that business owners, maybe not to their fault. I mean, nobody teaches you how to look for insurance, right? As a business owner. So I always use the pizza shop, right? The person that opens a pizza shop loves to make pizza, doesn't love being a business owner, right? They don't, and they don't understand what they don't understand.

That's fair. But I think that a lot of people, unfortunately view buying insurance for their businesses, like they do buying auto insurance or homeowner's insurance, right? Where it's just like, give me the cheapest price. I'm never going to, the hurricane's never going to blow my house away.

But you're dealing with employees, their lives, their livelihoods. You're, you're being a business owner. You're opening yourself for a lawsuit the day you hang your shingle.

It's very different than just your home, right? It's very, very different. There's all these risks. There's all these moving parts that are so much more complex than being here for 35 years in South Florida, never getting hit with a hurricane and not having to use your insurance.

They're two very different approaches. I think so much of this is about reframing the discussion because as a business owner and as the CEO of a large business, I will tell you that I'm not looking at, I wasn't looking at my insurance until I was required to have insurance in order to operate in a specific location or in order to work with a specific client. And at that point I was like, what's the bare minimum I need in order to host an event at this place? I think when, when the conversation shifted or when my focus shifted is when I first started making some money and insurance was introduced to me as an asset protection strategy.

And I think that's where Nicola and I can really have an impact on helping business owners look at insurance in a different light. So this is not a requirement. If you're listening to this now, this is not a requirement for you in order to do business at XYZ location.

What this is, is if you have adequate insurance protection, the, you know, jackass attorney who's representing the person who deserves no money from you will look at your insurance policy and say, if we make a demand and they tender the insurance policy limits, we're not going to go after this guy's house. That's the difference between selecting insurance appropriately and just getting the minimum, because you can go on the internet and, you know, get a policy that will cover you so that you can host an event at your local Marriott hotel. By the way, if you're hosting events at Marriott and you don't have insurance, you're in violation of your, uh, whatever agreement you're signing with Marriott or Hyatt or Hilton, they require you to have general liability insurance.

So if somebody gets conked on the head by something and you get sued, they're indemnified, but that's a separate conversation. Um, so let's, let's focus on the reason that insurance makes sense is because it is a tool to help protect you, Mr. Or Mrs. CEO and your personal assets. If you own a business, let's, let's start there.

That's why this conversation today is important to you. I let's, we can get into that all you want. And Nicole is going to want to walk out on you about liability and everything, which is fine, but I want to talk about the business aspects of it.

So Sierra, explain to us how the economics of running your business works, because I got a guy who's listening now who's a roofer and there's a woman who's listening, who owns a catering company and your business and the economics of your business are very different from theirs. So do us all a favor and give us kind of an overview for what it means to run an insurance agency and what the economics look like for you. How do you know if you're doing a good job as a CEO other than the money in your bank account? Yeah.

So, I mean, insurance is obviously a lucrative business, right? Um, I, by no stretch, I'm making a bajillion dollars like some of these CEOs. Right. Um, but, but if you're looking, if you were someone looking to get into a business to own insurance is very, very, um, attractive because of residual income.

It's hard to get it off the ground, even to be a producer, not, not even to own the agency. Right. If you go and be a producer at any of the large, explain, explain that term because people think of produce there.

They think you're making movies. So explain what that means. Right.

All right. So a producer is someone that goes out and they usually commission based only in business and sales, right? They're out there trying to get people to insure. Um, but some of these bigger shops, like, like the, the national firms, I mean, they, their commission split is great.

They get, they get benefits and all of those things. Right. But it's still a very hard career to launch initially because you're starting from scratch and you don't have a book of business and you don't have contacts.

So I would say the average, and so we're talking about two buckets, right? Like if someone wants to be in sales and in commercial insurance sales or just insurance sales and life insurance is different. I don't, I don't really play in that space, but, um, it takes about a good three years to feel the benefits of your, and the fruits of your labor because of the residual income, the industry average, if you're running a really good business, whether you are that producer and you have a good relationship base with your clients, um, 80, 80 on the low end, 85, 89% retention. So as a business, it's attractive to get into this field because as long as you're a good human being and you, you answer people's questions and you know what you're doing, right? Every year I can predict almost by certainty that I'm going to make 85% of my salary, uh, without bringing in new business, right? So this is 100% of relationship based business and that's why it's a good business, especially with what's happening with the internet, right? Like our industry, people have tried this insure tech space of, of billionaires and venture coming in and building in platforms where people can self service their insurance.

90% of them fail because this is complicated stuff and people need to do this with people they trust. So insurance, while we can absolutely use tools, right? To enhance our turnaround time and our service. Absolutely.

But this at the heart of it will always be a relationship business. So I always tell people, if you're interested in relationships, if you're good at it, um, this is the business to be in really. And you're making a difference, right? You're helping people grow their business at the time of catastrophes.

You're here to help them through that, navigate that. If they did it right, you know, their business should survive it. Yeah, it absolutely is a relationship based business because you are the one who has to help them navigate all these issues.

Now, when you are not selling on just price and you are not selling a commodity product, and you're just going from one client to the next to hit that retention rate, you truly have to be a great advisor. And certainly you are. You mentioned something that I want to make sure that we explain to the audience when we say insurance is complex and in fact it's, but I want you to explain why this is not your homeowner's policy.

This is not just like your, the policy on your house, right? Or your car, either one. This is very different stuff when we're dealing with a business. So explain to us why it is complex and some of the work that you do, you know, whether it's layering policies or something else, but explain to us why they're different.

So, and even auto insurance could be complex, right? Like understanding like the limits that you should purchase. All of those, I don't think any insurance should be purchased online. You should use a trusted advisor for all of them to answer your questions, right? But as far as the business side of it, it's, it's so complex because the business is in the middle, right? And then you're going to scale, right? Okay.

Well, whatever state you're in, you have regulations and requirements insurance wise, that's one thing. For example, workers comp in Florida, you have four more employees required to have workers comp. Okay.

Um, if you're going to rent a physical location, well now you're, you're going to have requirements from your landlord because they're going to require you to have certain limits, certain language, a policy that does not have certain exclusions, right? Sure. You can go online and buy yourself a general liability to appease your landlord. But for example, are you sure that your general liability has assault and battery coverage? What about firearm coverage? What if someone comes into your, your, your establishment and beats up a customer? All general liability policies do not include that you would never, the consumer would never know.

So, okay. So those are two risks, right? Obvious ones. Well, if you have a website and you have an email, what about cyber? And now you've added four employees.

What if one of your employees sue you? Right? All of these, every, every move you make. Oh, and now you're going to decide I'm going to do business in Georgia. Well, what are the Georgia regulations as far as the insurance required to do business in their state? What are you qualifying for a national contract? Fantastic.

They're going to send you most business owners will sign the contract, accept the job without even questioning if their insurance matches the requirements. We're always the last one. Well, I got this contract.

I need this insurance. Okay, great. Well, you have a $2 million umbrella and they're requiring you to have a $10 million bar.

Now we have to increase your insurance. Now it's going to cost you X amount of money. Now you didn't include that in your bid.

So you're, you just ate into your profits. So every, every decision that a business owner makes is really just opening another bucket of risk and they're not talking to anybody about it. It's always an afterthought.

So that's kind of why my strategy has been to talk to the professionals that insulate the business owners to kind of help them because the attorneys get called more than the insurance agent, right? Their CPAs get called more than we do. So I'm trying to educate the professionals that help them to realize, wait a minute, if I'm an attorney and I'm writing a subcontractor agreement for them because they're hiring subcontractors, you need to let your insurance know. There might be an exclusion for subcontractors on your policy.

So it's really, it's, it's just as a business owner, every decision you make, there's a possibility of it opening a new risk or maybe reducing. And I feel like risk is not bad. It's the unknown risk that's bad.

So if, if, for example, we talk about it with large fleets of commercial auto insurance, right? Maybe you don't want to have comprehensive and collision coverage on it because. It's going to raise your claims, your deductibles already a thousand bucks. Maybe you're going to decide to pay for those, those, those incidents out of pocket.

Okay. That's not a bad decision, but it's a decision that needs to be made with strategy. Okay.

Well, how much money do you have in the bank? What are the averages of the claims you guys had last year? If you paid, if there was $50,000 in accidents, maybe you should save a hundred grand for next year. Right? So it's, it's just the transference of risk that, that is the question. If you want to assume it, that's fine.

How are you going to prepare to assume it? If not transfer it to insurance, let the insurance company be the one to respond on your behalf. So I know that's complex, but it's really, these things are brought up in conversations and in being asked the right questions, right? Having it, having someone ask you, Hey, are you thinking of expanding to other States? Um, what does your cybersecurity look like? Do you have an IT person? Do they do, how often are they backing up your data? I have conversations every day where, where people are not doing that low hanging fruit. So what, first of all, whenever I hear people buying their business insurance policies online on their own, without using an advisor, I think that's exactly the same to me as you're getting those online forms in the legal space and you're using them without tailoring anything to your business.

And that ends in disaster. There's no way around that ends in disaster. It's just a matter of time.

So I, I, what I do want to explore a little bit more is when someone walks into your office, how do you have that first conversation? Because not everyone's already thinking about all these different things. And obviously over the course of time, when you work with someone, you really educate them, tell us what that first conversation is like. And do most people come in and they, they already have an open mindset or do you feel like you're trying to convince them, Hey, you really need to look at things in a different view.

Yeah. Most people are not open. They're not there.

And I think culturally we're tired of paying for insurance where we live. So high premiums, it's just another line item there. They're, they have like insurance fatigue.

Fair. So I always address that. Listen, I understand.

I live here too. I understand how we all feel, right? I am also a consumer of insurance, so. It's, it always takes a little bit of convincing.

And so what I do is I start with the relationship piece. How is your current relationship with your commercial insurances? Are you happy? What's the service like? Are you getting the answers you need? Do you feel like you've outgrown them? That has been, that is more of the pain point that I try to highlight. Like if this is the, no offense, I used to be an insurance agent that did the home, did the auto, I did it all.

That's why when we opened the bunker, I decided not to do that stuff because this is complex and this requires our attention and handholding. Right. So I always ask them that question, right? Tell us about the relationship with your current agent.

How open are you with them? How much, what are the conversations like? Usually the conversations are price driven. So outside of price, what are you upset about or what are you lacking? What are you looking for? I love to ask the question, what, what do you expect from your insurance agent? Right. What do you expect from the relationship? Because if it's something that I, that is unreasonable, that I know I won't be able to do, then maybe I'm not the one, right? Like, so I try to really just find out those intentions of why are we having this conversation? And if it's only price, I try very hard to walk away and say, listen, I'm, I can't guarantee you that I'm going to beat this price.

This is what it entails. Are you willing to give us the information? Most of them are not. It's not as easy to shop your commercial insurance like it is your home.

It's a lot of applications. We need loss runs. We need information.

Underwriters have questions. So we try to navigate that as long as it's not a price only decision. I'm happy to help if it's price plus I'm growing.

My agent can't really answer some questions. I got it. I got someone yesterday.

I went to our website, real estate developer, and they said, we kind of feel like we just need some guidance. We're not getting guidance. This is our first time buying insurance.

They're starting their first project in September. We need some help. And I said, great.

Well, so then it's not an insurance conversation, right? Insurance is just the price of placement of coverage. They're looking for guidance. She's asking me, are you guys willing to review our contract? People always signed them.

Yes, please. Like music to my ears, right? Like it's somebody that is already looking for what I'm offering, right? So it usually starts with that mindset of let's have an honest conversation of what's your expectation from your insurance agent and the relationship, right? As you know, Nicola, I love to insulate myself with professionals, right? Like I spoke to them, I said, listen, if you guys are new in this, you're starting your first project. I know some construction attorney that you might need.

So working with us is not just insurance. I have access to people and I've done that intentionally, right? I want to be a resource outside of just the placement of insurance. So if that's what people are looking for, those are my favorite clients.

Well, you know, obviously, obviously I work with some in between that it's still just transactional because that's what they want. But they have requirements. They know they have to meet them.

All right. Well, you know, I have to do that, too. It's just not my favorite.

Let's reframe again this discussion, because there's there's something that you do that is different from other folks who provide insurance. And it is completely in alignment with the way Nicola and I do business. So the way that Nicola and I choose how we work with and how we how we invest in services or who we invest in services from is we pick people that we want to spend time with and we want to have conversations with.

OK, so if I like I met you, I Nicola knew you before we first met. Well, I met you. You know, my my thought process is I would hang out with this person and talk to them anyway.

So it's it's so much easier to talk about insurance with somebody you like. Like, I can't even imagine sitting across from. And, you know, I know there are people who are listening to this profile, but so be it.

Like six some 60 year old coffee breath receding hairline insurance salesperson. Right. Like that would be a nightmare for me.

Like I would want to get in and get out of there like I'm just let me where do I sign and how much do I give you each month and we're done. Right. I don't want to I don't want to engage with that person because that person is just looking to sell the insurance.

They don't care about what me what I'm doing. They don't care about my business. They're not they're not interested in being a business partner with me for the long term.

I'll be very frank with you and say Nicola and I do not care what we pay for services. If it if we're working with someone and we're in a partnership with them. Right.

So if you're a trusted advisor to us, you're going to save us double or triple what we're paying in premiums in liability and exposure over the course of the next year. So whatever we're paying, it doesn't matter because the return on investment is going to come from the advice you give us. Now, if you add another layer to that and you send us somebody who becomes a client, then we can't afford to not get our insurance from you.

We can't afford not to sit down and listen to you when you when you talk to us about subcontractor agreements and how an indemnification and how it works. You know, those two phrases alone will make people's eyes glaze over. But you know what? If Nicola says to me, we've got to sit down and have lunch with Sierra because we're you know, we're bringing on subcontractors and, you know, we're going to take on liability and she's going to explain to us what we need to cover these policies.

The first thing I think to myself is, well, you know, spending time with Sierra is great anyway. So, I mean, I'll tolerate the insurance talk. Maybe we'll talk about something else like that's, you know, but my point is and I think it's amplifying what you're saying.

If you're out there and you're a professional service provider, it doesn't matter if you're pumping out sewers or if you're selling insurance, if people like you and they want to hang out with you, they're going to listen to what you have to say and they're going to take your advice. That's what you're trying to say here, Sierra, right? Right. And you do a great job of this.

But like to your point of what you're saying, it's and I talk, I speak around the country to insurance agents about this, the times have shifted, right, in the buying behavior and in who's coming into money. The generation that's coming into money, number one thing they care about is, do I like you as a person? Then I'll give you my money. My parents, it was who's the expert? Then I have to like that.

It's almost completely already there. So the idea where my parents came from the generation where you knew very little about them personally, about the people that they did business with, they just had to be like a decent human being, return my phone calls, and they had to tell me what they knew. Those were the requirements.

It has flipped on its head. Now, the generation that's coming into money and has all the buying power, no, no, no, their dollars go where they like the people first. Then you have to be the expert that they think you are.

Right. So it's not that it doesn't matter. The timing of when it matters has changed.

Even even how how we met. Right. So our attorney, who we refer work to because we like her as an attorney.

Right. And we have conversations with her outside of her advising us as an attorney, had an event where she put people together who refer her work. So we walk into that event knowing that Jessica, Jessica Porta Latina, if you're in South Florida, you need an attorney.

She's great. She's been on the show. Knowing that Jessica is having this event for people who are referring her.

So we're walking into the room knowing that these people already know how to connect people. They already know how to give. They're already interested in other people.

It makes it makes all the difference in the world. I mean, it's I I can't I can't stress this enough. And what does it do? Right.

It tells me, well, I trust Jessica and you guys trust Jessica so I can trust you. Right. It's it is the buying power, the buying decision making everything it has.

And I know that sales and buying has always been a psychological game, but it is even more. It is even more that now. And the trust factor is really where everyone should be spending their money.

How do I build trust in myself, in my brand publicly? That is where all of the dollars that any anybody in business is spending should be. How do I amplify that? I am a trustworthy person. Right.

And Jessica's event was that everyone I met there. Right. I just got lucky to sit at the table with you guys.

Right. I mean, and our pasta was probably some of them were thicker than others, but top notch. But but like everyone there, there's no doubt in my mind that I would use any of those professionals that were there because Jessica, they have her stamp of approval.

And I trust her. It's not it's wild how the business game and again, I as someone I have designations, I believe in getting educated, I believe in all of that. But.

The order shift of of where it's all at now, it's mind blowing and. The person that is in business right now that doesn't understand that you're also a media company because you need to amplify your presence and your vision and what you do, it's you're you're going to fall behind very fast. We're not there yet, but very, very, very fast is it going to be behind? And even with everything happening with AI, guess what? Trust is something that I cannot generate.

So what are you doing? How are you building trust? How are you building trust and connection with people? And so it's it's the relationship game has never been more necessary, has never been the emotional intelligence that that maybe years and years and years of corporate life, you were forced to shove it down. Now, that's what is needed. Because everything is becoming so bad.

So that's it's so true, there's there's so much concern about what we can trust now, and I think because like the expense of technology that has occurred in front of us because the next generation is kind of really focused on people because they've grown up on social media and like there's just been so much around them that they're really coming back to. We have to like this person and we have to like the company. They care about the brand and what the brand stands for.

So if they don't like what your brand stands for, they're not going to buy from you. So I absolutely agree with you. This is so important that we as human beings are trustworthy.

We're good people and we have good values that folks are buying into whenever they want to work with us. I saw there's a podcast that's phenomenal. It's Ed Milet's podcast, and it's with Rory Vaden, and he's run Brand Builders, right? He did a study where they polled a thousand millennials and they asked them, what profession do you think it's necessary to have a personal brand? And number one was their doctor, which shocked me because like, I don't need my doctor.

Like, I don't want to see my doctor having fun. I want my doctor to be serious, right? Nobody, nobody wants to see their doctor at the beach. No, no.

So it was like at 61, 62 percent. But when you look at the chart, like 52 percent of them said their insurance agent. But in between that range, it was all professional services.

And so Rory highlights that this shift that's happening, the higher the profession requires trust, the more important the personal brand is. Because the people that are coming care about trusting, the only way they know if they can trust you is by the personal brand that you're building and showcasing. So really think about the noise that's coming with AI, people that have never created content think now they're going to spew content, terrible copy and paste content, right, from child T.P.T., which you already see that.

But that's why Jessica's event was so successful, right? Because think about the connection, the human connection of her sphere of people to Dave's point that she already likes doing business with, we like doing business with her. Those human activations, those human experiences are going to breed more business, more trust, more connection than any other place. Like if you're in business and you're spending your money anywhere else, this is where it's at.

Fostering connection. Don't sell short for one second the way she set up the event. She set up the event by telling all of us this is an event for people who refer me.

Okay. So what does that do? That does three things, right? Number one, it reinforces, I refer Jessica, she really appreciates it. So it's for me, it's more rewarding.

And by the way, by showing appreciation, it could just be saying thank you. Okay. So somebody who appreciates a referral from me is going to get more referrals.

Okay. Number two, we know when we're walking in the room, these people know how to refer. So every conversation I have with someone, if I connect with them, there's an opportunity for us to potentially help one another out in the future.

And the third thing it does is it shows us that the value, it shows us the value that Jessica places on relationships. Okay. So I mean, I can't tell you and I've worked with dozens of attorneys over 30 years.

It is, you know, and the thing about and I've used Jess as an example for a number of different ways. She puts the fact that she gets referrals and she recognizes the referral people in her newsletter. Like this, this type of thing is incredibly valuable from a relationship building perspective.

And at the end of the day, being a lawyer, right, just like insurance, where it's a commodity business, you can get that from anyone. But the point that you're really hammering home is if we have relationships with people, not only will we, I mean, you may not enjoy the insurance buying process, but you'll feel better about what you're doing because you will, you will have a comprehensive understanding. If we look at things you buy and you, you feel terrible about the process, buying a car, buying a diamond, for example.

I don't know anyone who doesn't feel like if they've ever bought like a diamond, whether it's an engagement ring or like pendants or, you know, earrings as a gift. I don't know anyone who's gone through that process who doesn't feel like they need to take a shower after the interaction with the person who's selling it to them because you just feel dirty and nasty and seedy. That's the problem.

It's a huge. So you're going to buy less. You're going to buy fewer diamonds because you don't want to go through that process.

It's a barrier. I mean, so, so important. All right.

My last question, and you can get into this in detail with with Nicola. Nicola will dig into this. Give us in 10 minutes or less, Sierra, the the spectrum of insurance from beginning the insurance process, beginning the process as a business owner.

What do we need to think about? What do we need to ask our our insurance person about? Start with the basics and then work up to industry specific stuff. And Nicola will dig into it. So right off the bat, it doesn't matter the industry you're in, you need to know either.

That's the first. That's the first. So think slip and fall, right? Not slip and fall insurance.

Even if you don't have a brick and mortar spot, what if you are working from a coffee shop and your laptop cable is connected and someone trips and they have to have surgery? The worst. And I know that like we live in this space of worst case scenarios. But generally, that's where you start.

That's the foundation. And obviously, professional services versus like the contractor space, very different requirements and needs and limits. Right.

The riskier the business that you are in, the more insurance you need to buy. Naturally, the roofer needs to buy far more insurance than the attorney that sits in our office and breathes a lot. Right.

Just naturally very different risks. So you start with the general liability. If you have a landlord there, they're going to require you to have some meet some requirements of theirs.

That's not uncommon. Very natural. So you add some employees, state of Florida, four employees or more.

You're required to have workers comp. The biggest mistake I see. And it's a sensitive subject for me because it's so infuriating.

Payroll companies will tell you to do the workers comp with them. No, you do not have to do, nor should you do your workers comp with your payroll companies. They are not licensed professionals.

The person selling you the payroll 99 percent of the time is not a licensed insurance agent. And you are going to be sent to a call center to buy your workers comp and for them to manage it when there's a claim, which means you're getting zero service at the time of the claim. So if you want your payroll and your workers comp carrier to talk, so which we always advise, especially for the contractor space, it's called pay as you go.

So that way you're not paying workers comp on payroll that you're not processing. It's true. It's in these two weeks you processed seven thousand dollars of payroll.

You're paying workers comp on seven thousand dollars of payroll. That's the way a new business owner can manage their cash. Right.

It's not based off of estimated payroll. It's based off of true payroll, which also then will help at time of the audit. It will reduce the audit.

Your workers comp company can integrate with the payroll company. The myth that the payroll companies tell is if you want that service and you want it easy for it to be integrated, they have to manage it. That is false.

So do not give your workers comp to your payroll company. You just want that integration for convenience. Ask your insurance agent.

They can do it. The payroll company or the workers comp company company can do that for you. Naturally, with employees comes employee lawsuits.

You need to get EPLI coverage. It's not very expensive. And that thing, you know, oh, we run this business like a family.

Okay. Have you. Do you know what families do to each other for money? And guess what? You're actually not family.

So they'll do it faster. So we always tell everyone gets an EPLI quote from my office, whether you ask for it or not. And you have to decline it and write.

Because when you get that lawsuit, you're going to say, why didn't you sell it to me? Right. So EPLI, you think it does not replace an employment attorney or having process and procedures of revolving employment. But really think about it as your defense.

If you have allegations of discrimination, sexual harassment, wage and hour disputes, especially in the restaurant industry where they're going to say that you didn't pay them, you didn't pay them overtime, any sort of job that does a lot of overtime. That's the number one claim. When you fire them, they're going to they're going to say, you never you didn't pay me the hours I work and you're going to have to defend yourself.

And those cases are often the ones that become class action lawsuits, folks. So those are the cases that basically it's a bet the house litigation case because that can take down the entire business. So you absolutely need to make sure you're protected in that space.

Now, all of these, certainly, but definitely when you start looking at the employee claims, because they can get unbelievably expensive and they could potentially turn into class action. So having that protection gives you the peace of mind, knowing that you're covered, knowing that you're not going to have to be up at night wondering, how are we going to pay for this and pay for the legal expenses? Which so tell us about that. So the policies help you with the legal expenses, too, if you do get sued.

Right. The answer is always the same. Right.

I could clockwork. That's not going to happen to me. I've been in business 25 years.

I've never gotten sued. OK. But the one allegation, it doesn't even have to be true.

Right. Usually you expect someone gets fired. They're upset.

They're going to sue you. Right. Like that's kind of how this goes.

Whether it's true or not, for you to go and retain an employment attorney, it's probably on the low end, five hundred dollars an hour easily. So it's just a loan, your defense in defense costs, the policy is worth it. I have I had I used to insure someone that that he had an APOI claim.

It was an attorney. He had an APOI claim from someone that he didn't even hire. It wasn't even his employee.

It was based off of an interview. And the policy and the policy did respond and she got a six figure check and never even worked there. It was based off of allegations from an interview.

So also, by the way, if you're interviewing and firing or disciplining, any employee have a witness in the room. Never, ever do that alone, especially when you're the opposite sex. Yeah, definitely have a good employment counsel because that you just always always, always it's too risky of a space, especially now in the climate that we're in.

Correct. Sarah, tell us, like, how do people know what I get asked questions a lot? I don't know how much coverage I need. And I mean, aside from you have a mandatory requirement, a lease agreement with your landlord that says you have to have so much coverage.

Give them an idea. Like, how how do I know what's a good amount of coverage for me? Yeah, that's always a tough question, because obviously there is a thing that's being over insured. Right.

You don't want to you don't want to pay for astronomical insurances when it's not necessary. We don't want that to happen either. Ultimately, we always recommend at least layering in excess liability of another two million at the bare minimum.

Right. So the general liability will have to one typically bring in another two generally. Right.

It also depends on the business. So, for example, you know, nobody I have zero foot traffic here. Nobody comes into my office.

Right. It's it's it's my I'm very, very, very small right now. I have more protection on my errors and omissions.

Right. That's where my risk comes in. Just like attorneys.

Right. Their advice is where their risk is, not like someone tripping in their office. So we always always recommend at least layering it some with with an umbrella and with an excess.

There's a difference. An excess will just give you more of one coverage. An umbrella sits on top of all.

So, for example, if you're a contractor, it's very expensive because it's South Florida, the commercial auto rates and drivers are crazy. But really, if you're a contractor and you you have an excess over your general liability, that means that that doesn't go over your auto. So your auto is capped at whatever your commercial auto policy is of one million.

Maybe that's where your risk is. Your drivers are on the road. So, I mean, we always.

It really depends on on the the industry, like obviously condominium associations. Tower five, ten easily. Right.

Because those claims are huge and you have 200 residents. Right. Also depends on how much money you have on the bank.

It depends on if there's partners, if there's partners in place, you need directors and officers. Sometimes these partnerships don't go as expected. That's where I was going next.

Tell me, like, when do people need to think, OK, I might possibly need to look at having a directors and officers insurance or even professional liability because we didn't touch on that either. Yeah. So the professional liability, it's not just for professionals.

Right. Contractors that give advice on design work. They need.

And so we're seeing some of these contracts come in with requirements of it. Contractors, you know, think about a fire suppression company. They they do work with changing structural things.

Right. Fire alarm companies, they have. An errors and omission exposure when it comes to not responding fast enough to an alarm or to a phone call, that's an estate.

So if you're in a business that gives advice or provides a service that has an advice element to it or there is room for errors that can cause harm, you need errors and omission. Manufacturing errors and omission. Right.

You can make a mistake in the manufacturing of your product. And while product liability pays out for the. Product itself being damaged, it doesn't it doesn't repay you for the error aspect of your error in the manufacturing.

So kind of complex. But yes, that most people will need errors and omission at some point. And and contractually, we're seeing it more and more in the contractor space.

But to your point, attorneys, insurance, we have we're required to have it. Doctors. Mental health professionals, any anybody that is giving advice to people that could cause harm.

That's where you need that coverage. The directors and officers comes into play when you have partners. Or not in the nonprofit space.

Right. Think about. Even in condominium associations.

Yeah, I was going to ask that too. I had the conversation this week with someone. Oh, I sit on the board of directors of the condo association.

I was going to say, if you're not a partner or an owner in a business, fine. But if you sit as a volunteer on a board, do not do it unless you have confirmation that they have directors and officers. And you should review the language on who is a director and officer.

What is their definition of an insurer? What is their definition? How does that policy respond to past directors, future directors? That is where your personal assets are protected when you're when you're making decisions on behalf of other people. So if you're listening to this and you're not a business owner, but you are on boards, you have to think. Are you making decisions on behalf of other people that other people could have a problem with? And in boards, especially associations.

Yeah. All day, people disagree with the decision of the board. Let me share just just a quick anecdote.

So I was I haven't lived in a condo in 11 years. But when I did live in a condo, I was on the board of our I was the president of our association for a short period of time. And then I transitioned from being the president to being on the board.

And the new president who came on was the president up until, let's say, November of last year. So it depends on when you're listening to this. So I won't give you a year, but November of last year.

Guess what? He was indicted for embezzling money from the Condo Association and also perpetrating a significant fraud. He was a realtor and he was running a pay for play scheme during his entire time as a member of the association board. I got a call.

I haven't been. I sat on the board with this guy for two years, 10 years ago, 11 years ago. I got a call from a federal agent asking me if I saw anything.

I'm like, dude, it's like it's 11 years ago. You know, do you want an opinion if I thought the guy was shady? I'll give you my opinion. But I didn't see I can't remember if I saw anything factual.

But that just shows you 11 freaking years. And and they're calling me asking me. I mean, holy cow.

It's also it's also just like even like, especially on the business side of the partnership side. So, for example, three partners get in business and then bring on an investor. If you if you're in a business where you're bringing on investors, you better have something, you know, because if if these investors want to challenge your decisions on your investments, on you, on them losing money because of the direction that you took the company, this is where your personal assets are on the line.

Just had I just had that conversation with somebody who's placing their their real estate license with not with somebody who's a big brand with an independent realtor. And I said, look at the look at the coverage. Make sure make sure that.

So if you're if you're an agent, they should be there. There are errors and omissions. Their liability should indemnify.

You should cover you. So make sure that you're comfortable with whatever their coverage is, because if somebody thinks that you did something that's going to impact, this is this is for a business broker going to impact your the money they got for their business or whatever, you're going to you're going to have an issue if you're not adequately covered. So see the make sure that's a huge consideration if you're placing your license somewhere.

Yeah, it's all and you know, is the one that's probably the easiest to like predict how much you need because it's based off your financials. Like you got to turn it over. So it's very, very, you know, it's it's much easier to predict on that end on on how much coverage you need.

But I mean, that those those are disastrous claims and it can drag on and the PR associated to it. It could be very bad. Yeah, both while you're operating.

And so I'm going to touch on this very quickly, also in the bankruptcy space. So that is the one of the first places that I see that gets implicated in bankruptcy cases, you know, are there DNO claims and how much is in the policies that are available? So those are very, very critical to a lot of bankruptcy cases in addition to during the time of operations, because what decisions were being made on behalf of the company that ultimately led to the company getting into a bankruptcy proceeding, whether it's a reorganization or ultimately a liquidation. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, honestly, even this like this scandal with the Colpoit concept, right? Like that CEO, there's probably going to be a DNO claim there. It's pending and probably an APOI one, right? That is going to unfold.

And what they're they're a tech startup. So if you're in the startup space, these are essential policies for you to have, especially when bringing on investors. So I want to wrap up with this before we close out the show.

What so folks are getting ready to renew their policies, their one time a year with their agent, which, by the way, is absolutely insufficient to make sure that you are truly planning for and protecting against risk in the business. So give them some questions that they should ask their agent if they're preparing for their next renewal. So I would say, obviously, again, depending on on the nature of the of the business.

But first of all, if you're getting a renewal seven days before a renewal date, not ideal. You're an afterthought. I would not just because we do it.

I know a lot of people that do this, right, especially in the commercial space. It's complex. It's complex for the insured.

It's complex for us to to do our job. We're starting 90 days out and we're harassing our clients to meet with us. We're automated.

It's automated, right? We're automating our appointment. We need to meet with you. We need to have an appointment.

We need to have an appointment. We need to see what's changing in your business. And you'd be surprised or not.

You guys are in the space. How many do not meet with us? It's just some of them just. It's not important.

So I would encourage you to to if your agent is not reaching out to you to see what's changed in your business, you need to set up some time to chat with them and tell them, give them an update. What's happened in the last 12 months? Where are you going? What is your prediction for next year? Try to be as accurate as possible with the estimations of your receipts and your payroll. Right.

That diminishes the pain at the audit time. Obviously, everyone can have a stellar year and unexpectedly grow. That's fine.

Just know you're going to get hit with an audit. You're going to owe that money. But that's how you get ahead of it.

It's in these conversations prior. So even six months into your policy, if your gross sales or your payroll has changed drastically, pick up the phone. If they're not calling you, pick up the phone and tell them, hey, I want to make sure that my coverage is updated to minimize my audit.

I got a contract that boosted me two million dollars in sales. What can we do to negotiate this up front? Right. Those types of things of if they're waiting till seven days prior to expiration, tell them, hey, I don't want this to happen again next year.

How early can we start working on this renewal? I know that certificates tend to be a huge pain for especially contractors. Ask them if they have a portal where you can do your own certificates, where you can. That's it's so stressful for the for the employee at the contracting company that has to deal with the certificates.

It's stressful for the insurance agent because every certificate is urgent. Talk about that. Right.

If you have commercial auto policies, the rates are tough right now. But if your agent is not checking the driving record of the potential hires that you have, that's a reply. They should be.

That's a that's a part of risk management. Right. I you should say, which obviously we do that.

Send me who you're thinking about hiring. I can tell you what the driving record shows. I can tell you the impact it's going to have on your premium.

Right. These types of things that are proactive that your insurance agent should be doing to help you manage the cost of your insurance. If you decide to hire someone that had a DUI six months ago and your rate goes up four grand, that that's on you.

But you know it prior to hire, you know. So I would say just some of those questions of asking them for that type of service, if you're not getting it, is pretty critical. Excellent.

Thank you. Thank you. I think that's so helpful for folks to be thinking about this in a different way and asking the right questions, because a lot of this is a process of educating yourself.

So, you know, when to start asking questions. And I'm glad that you explored so much of that here today so that folks can be thinking, well, that's a change in my business. Maybe I need to go and revisit my insurance because I do think that a lot of a lot of business owners, first of all, we know you're busy.

You are busy every day. You're buried in the business. But if we give you things to think about that ought to trigger you to think, let me ask these questions to make sure that I'm being proactive about this and making sure I'm protecting everything that I built.

I think also one of my one of my best pieces of advice to the business owner that doesn't know what they don't know, which is most of them, which and it's fine. But that's also why you're hiring people. Right.

Like you hire the CPA that does the best job for you. You hire the attorney that you feel has your best interest at heart. Right.

So introducing them. Can be a lift for you if you're head down, growing your business, if you're if you have a quarterly meeting with your CPA, your attorney, your lender, your insurance agent, get them on a call. And if they're not willing to do that, then they're definitely not the right one for you.

Right. Like you lean into Iowa. I try to tell my business owners that it's almost like you have a board of a board of advisors available to you there.

Use the resources you're already paying for. And if they're not willing to work together, that's absurd. That that that would be the biggest red flag.

If they're not willing to take an hour of a quarter to meet with your other professionals to make sure everyone's on the same page. You know, one of the things that we teach people when they're looking to get into business development is there's essentially four pillars of business development and you should not work with people unless these these four people are referring you business. And, you know, first is your CPA.

CPA suck at passing referrals. So if you're not working with a CPA who's referring you work, I will introduce you to a CPA who will refer you work. Second is your your business attorney.

Right. So your business attorney is going to be someone that you should be calling before you sign anything from a contract for the copier to insurance policies. Whatever you, if you're not, if you don't have that relationship with your business attorney, you need to get another one, but your business attorney should also be referring you work.

The third is your banker. Okay. Your bank banks have unique and different ways of hosing you that your banker is never going to tell you.

And we put up with the hosing because our banker was supposed to be referring us business. Right. So, you know, I'm going to look the other way when you screw me, Mr. And Mrs. Banker, as long as you refer me business.

And the fourth is your insurance expert. If you're, if you're hating having conversations with your insurance expert, if your insurance expert, isn't introducing you to people who can do business with you, why the hell are you doing business with them? With the exception of the banker, because we don't really know what all the fees, how we're getting killed by our banker, with the exception of the banker, your professional service providers in these areas should be sending you business to offset the money that you're paying them like, you know, Sierra, you can charge me a hundred thousand dollars a year for my insurance. If you're sending me $200,000 worth of business, I'll gladly write that check to you.

I don't care. I'm happy to do it. I, you know, and I'm, I'm sure I'll get the best possible coverage.

This is the thing people don't think about. So Sierra help people give us the contact information for them to reach out to you because we've told them here numerous times that you get it, that you understand this, what's the best way for the people who are listening, the people who are watching this to reach out to you and connect with you, to have you take a look at their insurance needs, but more importantly, to have you as a trusted advisor to them. Well, thank you guys for the opportunity.

This was so fun. Nobody's ever this excited to talk about insurance. So excited to talk to you.

We're not, I don't want to talk about it. I'm not, I don't care about insurance. I care about talking to you.

That that's the whole point of the show. I appreciate that. So, um, I'm pretty active on LinkedIn.

That's my platform of choice. So you can connect with me there. So you're on the air.

Um, my email CR bunker, your risk.com website bunker, your risk.com. And, um, yeah, I'm happy to make connections too. I, we all know we're, we, we run our businesses. Right.

Very heavily relationship focused and, um, invested in each other's success. So if you're that type of person, I'd love to meet you. Alrighty folks that you heard it here.

And we constantly hammer this point home. The people that you're working with are people who should be part of the fabric of your business. They should be giving you guidance, support, and assisting you in becoming even more successful.

If the person who's doing your insurance for you, who's taking care of your insurance for you, isn't doing this. You need to call Sierra. Her contact information is down below in the show notes.

Sierra, thank you so much for joining us today. It was an absolute pleasure having you on. It was a blast.

Thank you guys more cooking classes. We're going to do more. You know, I'm going to work on my pasta making.

Everyone's pasta tasted good. Some of it did not look so good. Mine was a little green, but it was fun.

We did make a mess though too, folks. Making your own pasta creates a huge mess. So keep that in mind if you're doing it in your own kitchen.

Alrighty folks. That'll do it for this edition of the Inside BS show. My name is Dave Lorenzo.

And she is? We will see you back here again next time for another great interview. We'll see you tomorrow here on the Inside BS show. Thanks for joining us.