Hey now, welcome to another edition of the inside BS show. Today, we've got something really interesting for you. So if you don't know what EBITDA is, you're not alone because there are many business school graduates out there, including some people that I went to business school with who couldn't find EBITDA with two hands and a flashlight.

I will tell you that it is something that is you, you hear this phrase used on CNBC all the time and everybody just kind of nods along, but very few people know what it is. The bottom line is, it is your bottom line. And that's what we're going to talk about today.

We've got something really cool for you. I've got Jennifer you some with me and she is, well she's not only a bookkeeper, she can be a fractional CFO. If you want, she can basically just take you inside the numbers.

So if you're having problems finding your EBITDA with two hands and a flashlight, this is the show for you. Please join me in welcoming Jennifer to the inside BS show. Jennifer, thanks for joining us today.

I love your website. The URL is I heart EBITDA for those of you out there who are going, how do I draw a heart in the URL? You're stupid. It's I heart EBITDA spelled out.

Okay. Welcome to the show. How did you come up with that name? It's awesome.

Thank you so much. I, I came up with it actually. I saw it on someone else's swag.

I thought it was such a clever idea. It took it back to the company I was working with at the time. We made some custom stickers for everyone in the company so that they were always keeping EBITDA top of mind, sales, marketing, everyone, uh, folks outside of finance.

And, um, they, they let their trademarks slip. So I, I took it and I ran with it and I figured it was a clever way to, to get people to engage. I think it's great.

I think it's absolutely great. So earnings before interest tax amortization and depreciation, that's what EBITDA stands for. I got it right.

Right. EBITDA. So talk about what you do and why this is the perfect name for what you do.

So what, what I do is I help business owners simplify their finances so that they can make better business decisions. I think most of the people that do what I do are focused on jargon and, you know, acronyms and, you know, uh, weird vanity metrics and finance can be simplified in a way that really helps you run your business and make good everyday decisions. Okay.

So talk about it from a, an engagement standpoint. So, uh, I call you up and I'm like, Hey, listen, my finances are a mess. And you know, probably 60% of the people who are listening to this, their finances are a mess.

So they call you up and they say, Hey, listen, my finances are a mess. What's the first thing we do? Take me step by step through an engagement, working with you, working with your firm. So the first thing we do is I want to understand what you mean by my finances are a mess, because that can mean a lot of things to a lot of different people.

Um, the majority of people come to me because they have something great that they do. They love what they do and they've had some success, but they're not making any money and they don't understand why. And so there seems to be a disconnect between the translation of, I'm really good at selling, but I'm not making any money doing it.

And why not? And so what I like to do is really take a deep dive into their finances with them. What do you sell? How do you sell it? We do something called an order to cash audit, which looks at kind of the first time that you talk to a customer till the time the money lands in your bank account and going through that process with business owners is always eyeopening because I think there's this kind of aha moment when you sell something, you can get that contract. You're so excited, but that's when the work begins, right? Then you have to do whatever your special magic is.

That's going to deliver whatever you promised. And then somebody has to pay you along the way and you probably have to pay some people along the way. That's a lot of different things that have to happen that many business owners don't think about.

So we work through that process to really understand how and when money comes in and goes out. And then beyond that, we talk about kind of what your operating expenses are and most people will be like, what are you talking about? I don't know what an operating expenses. And so we talk through what, what is your PNL telling you? Do you know what a balance sheet is? Probably not.

Help you understand what your balance sheet is telling you and give you the tools that you need to manage your business going forward. I always say I'm doing a great job if I'm working myself out of it. Like the idea is like to hand something to you, Dave, and you walk away going, I am empowered with these tools to be able to run my business different and talk to you later.

Okay. So three times I can think of right off the top of my head when it makes sense to bring you in is when I start my business, right? If I'm going to get some sort of financing, I'm going to go to a bank and a bank is going to look at, you know, the bank is going to basically do a proctological exam of my business and, you know, I need my stuff to be on point, right? That's the second time. And then the third time is perhaps I'm thinking of exiting.

Maybe my partner is going to buy me out. I'm going to sell my business to a competitor. I'm just going to, I'm going to go to Bora Bora and I'm going to give a manager a piece of the action to run my business for me.

Those are the three times right off the top of my head. I can think it makes sense to bring you in because, you know, starting the business, I want to set things up right, right. And I need somebody looking over my shoulder to make sure that, you know, the grocery bills aren't being run through my business.

And, you know, everything is a general ledger is clean. And then the second time going to get a, going to get a loan. If you've never gone to a bank or any type of lending institution to get a loan, I mean, it is, especially if you're going for an SBA loan, they take a, they take a microscope and they look at everything you've got.

Yeah. You'll, you'll want somebody to hold your hand during that process. And if you know, I'll, I'll take it one step further.

If you show up there with something that's not in good order, you're already signaling to them that you're not a good fit for whatever you are trying to get from them because you don't have your shit together. And they're going to be like, no, I'm not giving you any money. Yeah.

And so something else to think about too. And it's, um, it's not uncommon. I have, I have clients, this happens to you, the IRS sends you a notice and they, they, you know, they want to look at your, they want to look at your books, but they're only looking at a specific year, right? And they'll give you some time to get your, to get your act together.

Well, you need to call Jennifer and get the last seven to 10 years together because even though they're only maybe looking at 2020, they have the ability under, under the law to go back and look at other years if they see something in 2020 that's not cool. So you want to have Jennifer come in and take a, you know, and take a look at everything and fix everything up so that when they do go back and look, they can fix it. And then she can even help you if you need to restate anything.

Correct. You can help them. Yeah.

And I'll tell you now, you know, and it's an expensive lesson to learn. Fixing costs a lot more than setting it up correctly in the beginning. And that's, you know, that's one of the most difficult things when a business is starting out to tell people to spend money on this.

And again, it's a very painful lesson to learn. And I would say the other place where it makes sense to bring me in is when you've plateaued, maybe you've been doing this for a little bit and you had an idea that it was going to be, you know, a $10 million company and you're a $1 million company and you can't break that, or you can't break the 1 million and you can't figure out why. I think, you know, it's, it's very easy to just have a super myopic view of your business and fresh eyes.

And I'm very direct. This isn't about telling you how amazing and glorious and wonderful your company is. It's about explaining to you what's going on and how we can fix whatever it is that needs to be fixed.

Yeah. If you're, so I know, I know a handful of people who now their business is rather than retire, they basically brought in a manager and their business is essentially passive income for them, right? I would recommend that you bring Jennifer in to be the checks and balances on what's going on with your finances in that business because there's a million, you're not there. You're, you know, like I, for, in one case, the person that I'm thinking about owns a commercial cleaning company and you know, the commercial cleaning company is in New York and this person now lives here with me.

They don't live with me, but they live here in Florida and you know, whatever, whatever puts your boat. I don't know. Yeah, I got them in the next room.

He's in the closet. No, they live here with me in Florida. They live here in Florida.

Now I'm saying it all the time. They live here in Florida and you know, they, this person during COVID didn't get up to check out the business at all. And so anything could be going on as long as this person is getting their paycheck and their, and the paycheck is, you know, consistent.

They're getting their distribution and the distribution is consistent with what they've always gotten. Who knows what's going on with the finances, right? So that's another opportunity. That's one of the things we like to do is set up, um, quick identifiers for you as a business center.

So you don't have to do a deep dive, but if you know, you know, margins are always at 40% and then you get your finances the next month and they're 35, you might say, it's an early warning sign. If you got them the next month and they're 40 again, great. It was a blip.

Let's try and understand why. So it doesn't happen again. If you get them the next month and now they're 34, that's when you know, something's wrong and you need to look further into it.

But we want to, we want you to have those tools as a business owner and you should. So let me give you a, let me give the viewers, the listeners a for instance, right? So years ago I worked with a gentleman who owned a number of restaurants and one of his restaurants was always busy, always packed. But the, the profit of the restaurant seemed to stay consistent even though the, you could never get a table at this restaurant.

The profit was about, you know, when they were running probably 60%, um, you know, and he couldn't understand it. And so we pulled his, his, uh, financial information. We went through the general ledger and we noticed that the linen expense was like triple what it was two years ago.

And I said to him, well, there's only one, there's two reasons why the linen expense might be triple, right? One, they're paying somebody off and they, you know, or they're doing triple the volume and they're only recording the volume bet back to when you were at, you know, like 40, 50, 60%. So we, you know, the, the people who ran the restaurant for him didn't know who I was. So basically I went in there several different times and the restaurant was packed each time and we counted the number of people that they were serving.

And I'm like, you're somebody, there's basically two sets of books. And the way we discovered it was from looking at the general ledger, looking at the linen expense. So my point in all of this is his books were, you know, were on point.

The person was just squirreling away the revenue over and above his food costs was slightly elevated. Um, but his linen expense was enormously, enormously elevated. So that's how we discovered that, you know, that something was, something was going on.

So if you have an operation that has multiple locations and you can't be everywhere, you need an extra set of eyes on your books, especially if you don't have a CFO. So let's kind of move into that realm. Jennifer, at what point does it make sense for like you can, you can be their kind of outsourced CFO, right? And meet with them twice a month.

What stage of the business does it make sense for them to move from first? What stage does it make sense to bring you in? And then what stage does it make sense to go a step beyond and to hire like a controller or maybe a CFO? So, you know, the, the role of a, of a controller and a CFO can be very, very different. If you have high volume, high transactions, you know, you're definitely going to want something, somebody in the books day to day. And that doesn't necessarily need to be someone in house.

I also own an outsourced bookkeeping and controller services company. And that's what we do for many companies. We are their eyes, ears, you know, on a day to day basis.

When you want to bring in a fractional CFO is you're trying to answer some more strategic questions, right? It's not about the transactional stuff because right. A controller may have just been booking to your point in your restaurant example, may have just been booking those linen expenses and, you know, not put two and two together. It's really, you're trying to answer something more strategic, more high level.

You want to buy something. You want to sell something. You want to be bought.

You're thinking of moving. Maybe you have a contractor that you want to move to full time. When does that make sense? How do you, what is the framework for asking yourself those questions? And you know, the that's when you want to bring somebody in to help you address those things.

Now, certainly you get to a certain size. You're going to want to have somebody in house, but that really comes from to your point, running multiple locations, um, high volume businesses, high revenue businesses. Uh, that, that's when you want to, you know, focus on bringing someone in house.

But I've served companies as small as pre revenue, helping them get set up for success and scale, uh, to companies, you know, companies that I serve are, you know, over a hundred million sometimes. So I think it more depends on less about size and more about the questions you're trying to answer. Some people just need good counsel.

Okay. So I'm going to ask you this question. I want you to take a minute and think about the answer.

Um, what industries do you find your, uh, your work to be particularly important, particularly valuable? Are there some industries rather than others where you think your work is, is critical, essential? I mean, everybody can use your services, but I want you to give us a couple of examples of businesses and particular industries where the work that you do is particularly impactful. So answer that question in just one minute. I need to remind folks that we are brought to you by Sandrowski corporate advisors for over 35 years.

Sandrowski has provided exceptional service in the following areas, tax planning, dispute advisory, business valuation, litigation, support, forensic accounting, and risk management. So when does it make sense for you to bring in Sandrowski corporate advisors? I'll give you a couple of examples. If you are a business owner and you are thinking about the exit and you're thinking about selling your business, your corporate structure, your business structure is critically important because if you've structured your business appropriately and you're in a couple of specific industries, you could be eligible for a qualified small business tax exemption.

Now, why, why, why do you care about this? Why should I even bring this up to you? Well, you could save millions. I'm talking about millions of dollars in personal tax exposure from the taxes associated with the liquidation of your business. Now, again, you have to be in a couple of, you have to be in a handful of industries.

There are some industries to which it doesn't apply and also you have to be below a certain size, but there's one thing that's essential. There's a five year look back period. So if you're thinking about selling your business in the next five years, give Sandrowski a call, have them come in and have them look at your corporate entity structure and tell them you heard about the qualified small business tax exemption and they will look at your formation.

They'll look at your entity structure and they'll tell you, Hey, listen, you need to make changes in this area. You can have your attorney make those changes or you can have Sandrowski do the changes for you. The bottom line is very few.

The big four accounting firms, they're not doing this. And the reason they're not doing this is because it's too small for them, right? Very few CPAs. If they know about this, know how to implement it correctly.

This is a niche market that Sandrowski has, uh, has performed exceptional service in over and over again. You can give Sandrowski a call today at 8 6 6 7 1 7 1 6 0 7 8 6 6 7 1 7 1 6 0 7. Ask them about the qualified small business tax exemption. Tell them what your time horizon is for your exit strategy.

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My guest today is Jennifer Yusum and she has a fantastic company and the website for that company is I heart EBITDA.com. We're going to put it in the show notes so that in case you're, I don't know, you don't know how to spell EBITDA. You can look it up in the show notes, but if you want to reach out to her, you've got a specific question. You can reach out to her at 3 1 0 9 9 1 4 2 9 8 3 1 0 9 9 1 4 2 9 8. All right, Jennifer, before, uh, I went on that little rant about the qualified small business exemption and, uh, the revenue roadmap guide and people not being able to spell EBITDA.

I asked you a question and, um, I asked you to give us a couple of examples. So, um, if you're ready, go ahead and give us a couple of examples right now. Well, I spent a majority of my career in the media and advertising space.

So certainly companies that dabble in those fields are, you know, great, great fits. Um, professional services, uh, a lot of the, the way that their businesses are structured. I have a great familiarity with that.

Again, this kind of concept of switching from, um, um, you know, contract employees into, into W2 employees. What does that look like as you scale things like that? And then e-comm, um, have a, have a big familiarity there with the platforms. Um, with kind of the, the workflows and, and who, who takes money along the way.

So, um, always want to keep as much of that terrific. So since you mentioned, um, professional services, I have a very specific question about that booking revenue when there's work in progress, right? So if you're, if you're running a really good professional services firm, or if you're one of my clients, I beat into my clients over and over again, they need to get paid in advance. So you, you get a boatload of cash in advance, right? And then what are most, what are most professional services firms do? They get $150,000 and boom, there's $150,000 in revenue.

And then the next month there's no revenue. So talk about work in progress and how you should be booking revenue when it comes to work in progress. I mean, RevRack revenue recognition is one of the things that we work a lot with, with, you know, with our clients.

And the, the reality is, um, that if you're booking $150,000, when it comes in the door, you're on a cash basis. And one of the things that clients get super confused about is, uh, filing their taxes, which might be on a cash basis and management financials, which should always a hundred percent of the time be on an accrual basis, which is what you're talking about. Um, and understanding kind of there, there's a lot of different methodologies, but you cannot book the entirety the day that the money comes in the door, or even the day that you sign the contract.

The reality is that contracts are generally over a long length of time. And you want to be thoughtful about percentage of completion or expenses plus some percentage. So there's a lot of different methodologies, but the reality is that you're not just booking the whole thing.

And that is one of the biggest things that we work with folks on is one, understanding the difference between cash and accrual, why it matters and how to think about it, because you're right. You're going to have very, very lumpy financials when you're taking all the revenue in, particularly if you think about a very, you know, kind of absurd example where you get the money on the 31st, and then you're paying all of your vendors and contractors in the following month. You're all revenue and in the first month and all costs in the second month.

So there's somebody listening right now and they're thinking to my, to themselves, I don't care. I, you know, I just don't care about that. Who does care about that? Jennifer, why is this so important? I care.

Um, here's why you should care because, um, in six months, you know, if you have a couple of those $150,000 contracts in six months, eight months, nine months, when you're looking back on your financial performance and you are trying to understand what is going on with your business, maybe you're not making any money. Maybe there's no cash in your bank. Maybe you didn't have money to pay contractors one month.

The only way to really understand what's going on with your business is to show your financials in the way that we're talking about, recognizing the revenue in an appropriate manner for work accomplished work completed, recognizing the expenses in the same way. So getting people to really understand the difference between that and cash in the bank can be a little bit of a struggle, but we have a lot of different, you know, that, that is my jam is my sweet spot is helping business owners, figuring out just what that special language is. That's going to help them understand the difference between those two things so that you can really grow and scale your business.

You don't understand that there's no growth. So also talk about how you can serve as like an early warning system for, for problems that could come down the road as you're looking at the financial statement. So for example, if the travel expenses as a percent of revenue are out of line, right? If the, um, if the office supply expenses as a percent of revenue are out of line, if the charitable donations are out of line, right? Having you on the case, looking at, uh, the financial statements explain how that can save a world of heartache down the road.

You know, one of the most painful exercises that I go through with a business owner when we're starting is let's talk about your need to haves versus your wants. And inevitably when I let, uh, uh, uh, CEO, a business owner, a founder, take a first crack at, you know, tell me everything in here. That's a must have.

It's laughable. There are very few things in a business that are must haves. And I understand that, you know, there's a fair amount of people out there that are probably pushing some expenses into their business that they probably shouldn't be.

Yeah. Groceries. No, that doesn't happen.

Gas, gas for the personal vehicle. No way. That never happens.

That brand new entertainment system that we installed in our living room that went into the office expense line. No. So what I try to explain to them is I'm not trying to take away that benefit, the benefit that they see within their business of being able to do that.

What I'm asking them to do is parse out the real expenses from the not real ones so that we can have a true understanding. And to your point, a red flag of when there is an actual issue. If you're mushing all that stuff together, it's really, really hard to see the true business drivers and what's going on with your business.

And there's always an aha moment when we go through that process. There's always a, Oh, Oh, I didn't realize that this family vacation that I booked and happened to meet with a client when I was there. So put it all into business expenses isn't an actual business expense.

I'm getting the tax benefit of it, but it's not a true business expense. And so when I really stripped that out to get a true understanding of what my business is spitting off, it's a pretty eyeopening. Or that, that addition you put on your home during COVID, which happens to contain a desk and a chair, which you're calling your office.

You can't call that contractor expense. Maybe, maybe a little bit of a problem. Right.

But, but they will look at me in earnest at the end of it and say, you know, my business isn't making any money. And I'm like, all right. So Jennifer, here's what I want to do now.

I want you to talk about, uh, give us, um, who refers you business, um, so that we know the people who are listening, the people who are watching this, we know who, who we should connect you with. I mean, obviously I think we have a pretty good picture of who you, who you help. Um, so talk about now who usually refers you business so that if somebody is one step removed from a direct client, they may be able to connect you with a referral source.

Yeah. Um, CPAs are, you know, naturally a, a, a great referral source, um, business advisors, uh, and bankers. Great.

Um, and this one always comes as a surprise, but I have an amazing network of fractional CFOs, um, that, you know, we meet often and talk about what's going on. They're actually my biggest referral sources because there's an abundance of business out there. The reality is that I'm an acquired taste.

And if you want to work with me, you're probably not going to want to work with one of them and vice versa. So they're, they're actually my best, my best referral sources are, are other fractional CFOs, particularly the, the women in, in my circle. Okay.

Um, is there a business that's too small? Is there, there's a business, I mean, because you have the bookkeeping, they have to be able to afford course, but because you have the bookkeeping firm to really any business can use you for that. I mean, every business needs bookkeeping. Absolutely.

Absolutely. And, um, you know, I, I, the, the way that my business model is structured is I don't, you know, I have a few retainer clients, but I do like to operate with this kind of CFO on tap model, which is to say, even if you're really small and starting out, do you want to buy a couple hours of my time to help get you set up for success? That's, that's a great way to get started and, and a great way to get an understanding. Let's build you a strong operational model.

Um, let's, you know, go through the drivers of your business and really understand, like I said, the, the nice to haves versus the must haves. Um, and, and let's have those real talks. And so, you know, is any business too small? No, not really.

Every, every, you know, every business is the same. Okay. Now let's talk about what, what we should be listening for.

Right? So I'm, I'm out to dinner tonight with a, with a couple of business owners. What am I hearing that says, man, I gotta, I gotta connect you with Jennifer. What typically are they complaining about? What are they talking about? What are they confused about? And that, that is a perfect teed up introduction.

I mean, one of the things you already talked about already, you know, you're, you're a friend with the restaurant business. You know, they're saying, Dave, I don't understand. You know, I'm I'm doing more business than I was three years ago and I'm making the same amount of money.

Like that's a huge red flag. Uh, the one that people most often will come to me about is I don't have any cash. Like my business isn't converting to cash and I don't understand or they've had a, they've had a scare.

Like they almost missed payroll or, and it kind of came, whatever it was, it came out of the blue for them. You know, there's plenty of business owners that know that they're scraping by and may not make this week's pay run. But for the ones that are surprised by it, um, those are always, you know, great referrals.

Like let's figure out what, what went wrong, what happened. Okay. So now Jennifer, take a minute and think of three things that people should take away from our time together.

Three things you want people to remember. And while you do that, I'm going to remind folks once again of my friends at Sandrowski Corporate Advisors. So this time I want to talk about those of you out there who are lawyers or professionals and you're dealing with a controversy.

Maybe you're dealing with two partners who disagree on the value of a business because they're going to break up or they're dealing with a merger and is a big negotiation and one side doesn't want to pay what the other side thinks they're worth. What can you do about that? Well, you can call Sandrowski Corporate Advisors and bring them in and they'll look at your financials and they'll value your business. Even if you have a CPA firm now calling Sandrowski makes sense because it's an independent third party verification of the financial information, the numbers, and then they'll do a competitive analysis of the industry.

They'll also look at the geographic area where you're operating and they'll put a value on your business. Now, if there's a controversy, if this is happening as part of a litigation matter, you really need Sandrowski. Why? Because their valuation team has testified in court hundreds of times over the years.

And this is important because, you know, financial information, if you haven't grown up with it, it's an acquired taste. So think about pitching to a judge what the value of your business is, right? You need to break it down in a granular way that's really easy for the judge to understand, or even worse, God forbid, you got to make a case to a jury that your business is worth X and here are the financials. The jury's eyes are going to glaze over.

So you need somebody who can take this information and break it down, make it really easy to understand. Sandrowski has experience doing that. I want you to call 866-717-1607, 866-717-1607.

Call Sandrowski today, have them come in and look at your business if you're in the middle of one of these situations that I described. Sandrowski Corporate Advisors is a CPA firm with a different perspective. Jennifer Youssef is my guest today.

She can help you with all of your financial issues. If you're confused by your finances, if you don't have enough cash, if you think something funny is going on, if you think you're ready for a controller or a CFO, but you're not a hundred percent sure you don't want that commitment yet, call Jennifer. She'll look at your stuff.

She'll get you straightened out and she'll tell you if you need a CFO, if you need a controller. Her phone number is 310-991-4297. 8310-991-4298.

Okay, Jennifer, what are the three things you want us to take away from our time together today? Well, the first one is when it comes to finances, all businesses are the same. So I know everybody thinks they're special. My baby is the best, but we're all snowflakes, Jennifer.

We're all snowflakes. Everybody's unique. Everybody's special.

Finance doesn't discriminate. Money comes in, money goes out, whatever's leftover goes in your pocket. I mean, it's not, it doesn't need to be that complicated.

And you need to, you know, the second thing is you need to understand your finances and they can be simple, but you really need to understand them. And the last thing is you can outsource the doing of it. So you can hire in-house outsource, whatever a controller, a CFO, a bookkeeper, all the things.

You cannot outsource the thinking about your finances. You need to be in it as a business owner and really, really understand that. Cause I see so many people that are like, I've hired the best.

I've hired a great person. I'm like, but what does your balance sheet say? And they're like, ah, I don't know. So ask, ask her.

You can't do that. Gotta own it. Gotta own your shit.

It's your business and you should want to know what's going on. Yeah. You can't fatten the cow by weighing it, right? So you, you need to understand what the metrics mean.

And if you don't understand what the metrics mean, rather than look like a complete and total goofball and ask one of your employees, call Jennifer. And she'll sit down with you in a confidential way and explain it to you. And she will even explain it to you every frigging month.

If you need her to explain it to you every month, she'll do that. That's what she does. So reach out to Jennifer today.

310-991-4298. 310-991-4298. Jennifer, thank you so much for joining us today.

This was a great conversation. I'm sure a lot of people have a clearer understanding of why their financials are so important. And if you just installed an entertainment system in your house and you booked it as an office expense, you really need to call Jennifer.

Jennifer, thanks for joining us today. It was great having you with us. Thanks for having me.

All right, folks, that'll do it for another episode of the Inside BS show. It's my pleasure to bring these shows to you every day. If you like what you heard, give us a, Hey, now, down in the comments or let us know down in the comments, what you liked, even let us know what you didn't like.

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Your feedback is the fuel that keeps this show going. My name is Dave Lorenzo until tomorrow. Here's hoping you make a great living and live a great life.