Hey now, welcome to another edition of the inside BS show. My name is Dave Lorenzo and today we're going to have a good time. So whatever you're doing, if you're driving, you're going to want to pull over for this interview because you're not going to be able to control yourself.

Honestly, if you're not wearing a diaper, you may just wet your pants because we're going to have a great time today. My guest is Melissa Costello and she is the CEO and chief storyteller of a company that does video. Now I know what you're thinking.

You're like, well, Lorenzo does video. Why is, why is there somebody on a video doing video? No, no, no, no, no, no, Melissa Costello does real video for people who use the video to go on and do big things like maybe, I don't know, get elected president of the United States. Yeah, that's Melissa Costello.

She does video for people like that. She's going to tell us about using video to tell a story. So all you knuckleheads that are out there with your iPhones thinking that you're shooting video, you need to pull up a chair, get your notebook out or type on your iPad because you're going to school for how to do video the right way.

Please join me in welcoming Melissa Costello to the inside BS show. All right, Melissa. So now that we've set the bar so unbelievably high, welcome to the show.

And thanks for joining me. I appreciate your confidence, Dave. I'll do my best to, you know, inspire all kinds of odd things.

Well, so I want you to talk about the power of video to, to move people and to make an emotional connection because there, there's there's 98% of people who are using video today are, you know, they're doing either some, you know, goofy, you know, crap that my kids watch for hours. And apparently a lot of people watch for hours or they're there. It's like a Harvard classroom where it's like a three hour thing.

And it's the most boring thing ever. Talk about the, what this medium is can really do. What's the power of video to make an emotional connection? Explain that to people, please.

I would love to, this is one of my favorite topics. It's something I kind of stumbled on and the more I did it, the more I realized the potential to do it even better and to push it even further. You know, it's simply put, you know, the reason it's so powerful is that when you put it on your site, your conversion rate goes up, your Google ranking goes up.

Of course, Google does own YouTube that has something to do with it, you know, so it's got tremendous ROI, but the more interesting part is why is that happening? And that's because very simply four times more consumers would rather watch than read. Have you noticed how few people read nowadays? Yeah. Remember back in the day when people would like have books on the train, not so much anymore, and especially younger consumers are more apt to want to watch.

And why is that? It's because you get a lot more for less. For instance, one minute of reading yields approximately 130 words. That's about what most people can consume.

One minute of video is the equivalent of 1.8 million words. And you go, wait, what? That sounds insane. Okay.

Well, a picture's worth a thousand. The reason video is worth 1800 times more is you get all of this. You get subtext, you get to see, Oh, how does she dress? How does she move? What is the sound of her voice? What is that sound of a train approaching in the background? It is the sound of the brown line approaching.

You get a feel for who that individual is and what their natural habitat is. And that's pretty amazing. So this is for instance, why I think online dating services encourage you to meet someone sooner rather than later, because you could be, you know, a staggeringly charming, suave, debonair, articulate person in text, anyone can, but when you show up and you got to string a sentence together in person, that's a different thing.

So those of us who do this kind of thing and my clients use it to their best advantage. I think that video is an opportunity as well to really, you can, you can feel someone's energy on video and you're, you're, you're going to be, you can captivate someone with your words in writing. But if I, if I change the pace of my speech or I change my intonation or I'm animated and I take off my glasses and I really make a face like I'm, like I'm excited about something, you can convey so much more in video and it only takes a little bit of practice.

It doesn't, you know, you don't, you just have to be yourself and if you're a captivating person, you just have to, you know, perceive that you're talking to another person and speak to them like you would if they're in front of you. That's what video can do from a one on one standpoint. So, you know, I mean, listen, if I, I'm, I've been married a long time.

I've been with my wife for over 20 years. If there was video, who knows what the hell could have happened? I mean, you know, things, things went great for me now, but think about what could have really, think about how much better my wife could have done if there was video. Anyway, I digress.

You're not my therapist. This is, so let's talk a little bit about what you can do with someone who maybe isn't, you know, doesn't have a charismatic personality, but perhaps has a good story, right? So let's say you had a constitutional law professor who is really good at community organizing, you know, and could tend to go on and on like constitutional law professors can do. What could that person do with video? Well, as you know, it all comes down to a good conversation.

A good conversation is something anyone wants to participate in. So sometimes it's a matter of finding something fascinating. They just said and going, wait, wait, wait, wait, what, what did you, you were in Bora Bora for what, you know, then you're on, then you kind of move the conversation in another direction.

But I do a lot, just as you do. I do a lot of research before I interview someone on video for their branding purposes and find ways to surprise them. Because if I can surprise them, I can surprise my audience and surprise.

This is something you learn in art school, like on day one surprises what distinguishes art from almost everything else. Of course, it's also what distinguishes humor. When you don't see something coming, that's what makes you laugh and laugh is an expression of surprise.

And it's also an emotion. So that's what I try to build into everything. Surprise, emotion, everybody's got a good story, Dave, as you know, sometimes you have to dig.

That's all. You know, it's a, it's funny you say that. I was talking to someone the other day and we were talking about a specific subject matter and they were doing a great job educating people.

And I said to them, can you give us an example of this as an application in real life? And the person said, sure. And they started telling me a story. And they said, and you know, that was probably the lowest point in my life and I was ready to kill myself.

And this is what kept me from doing it. And I said, I said, wait a minute. I said, explain that again.

And they explained it again. And this is like 25 minutes into the conversation. So the conversation ends and I'm like, you don't understand how powerful your, what your, your story can be.

You, you buried the lead. You need to start with that and then go into everything else. You need to start with how this is the lowest point in your life.

And here's what happened. And this is what pulls you out of it. And then explain all the technical stuff because then you got them.

Then they want to know what the technical stuff is. Nobody gives a crap about the technical stuff. They care about what, what happened to you and how it could have been them.

Right. And that's what video can do. You know, Dave, it's the, why you're talking about the, why, what is your, why, what is your, so why am I doing this? So my, so I realized early on that I had the ability to help people make a great living and live a great life.

That's how I close every one of these shows. And I learned that when I was a business strategy consultant and working for the Gallup organization, managing a $250 million a year annual business and my top client, $10 million a year client called me a month before the results of a study were due and said, I need somebody to come over and give me top line on this study right now. And I blew off a lunch with my fiance who's now my wife.

And I, you know, ran in New York city, December, put on a coat, you know, ran with papers under my arm, not knowing what the hell I was going to say to this guy, but I was going to say something cause he's a $10 million a year client. And I got into the crosswalk and there was 30 of us in the crosswalk, 29 people avoided the taxi that struck me. Um, I don't know, you know, the police report said I flew 23 feet, uh, like seven inches.

I don't remember that. I remember being strapped to a backboard wheeled down the hall of St. Vincent's hospital on a gurney, looked up at ceiling tiles and paralyzed from my armpits down. And I'm thinking to myself, if I can get out of this, I am going to live life on my own terms.

I'm going to be able to say no to any client I want. I'm going to build a business that enables my lifestyle because PS at the time I was overweight divorce. This is now going into my second marriage, no kids, plenty of money, but zero life traveling Sunday night to Friday morning, you know, to just generally a miserable person with more money than I needed.

So I decided I was going to live life on my own terms and build a business that enabled my lifestyle. So when you ask me what my why is, my why is to help other people do that to help other people have a business that enables their lifestyle. And the way that I can reach the most people is by finding people like you, who can help them.

Like you're going to help them tell a story, right? You're going to help them with video. You're going to help them, you know, connect with people at an emotional level. I interviewed somebody else today who's going to fill in another piece of the puzzle.

So, you know, even if the only people I touch are the 300 people I interview each year, I've done something to help people enable their life through their work versus the other way around. So, I mean, I appreciate you asking, that's my why, but if the show is not about me, it's about you. Well, I was curious, how long, and how long have you been doing it? So we did interviews pre-pandemic.

We did a lot of them in person and they were very good. And I really was energized by them. And then the pandemic struck and I freaking hated Zoom.

And so I promised myself I wouldn't do interviews on Zoom. So I started doing like a solo show and I was doing a show every day. I mean, it was a pandemic, I had nothing to do.

I was doing a solo show every day. And then I discovered a particular type of software that we use to shoot these interviews where the quality is pretty good and, you know, we could produce a good product. So I started doing the interviews again.

So on and off we've been doing interviews, you know, three or four years, but my whole life has been asking people questions and bringing out, you know, what their unique ability was. So, you know, consulting, that's what you do basically. Like yesterday a guy came to me, he has a sales business, sort of like mine.

And he's like, look, you know, people are asking me for a track, like a Six Sigma black belt program for sales. What would you do if somebody said that? I said, what I would do is I would follow around their top five people and determine how they sold and create five different tracks. You know, this is the Joe track.

This is the Sally track. This is the Mary track. And now you've got three tracks there and these are your, and then you just label them whatever you want to label them.

And he's like, well, that's brilliant. He's like, because we don't have to do any work other than follow people around. That's the essence of consulting, right? So I have been asking questions of people and distilling information for a number of years.

And I realized that if I could do it and get it to a lot of people, maybe, maybe we could help people. So let's get back to, I don't want to talk about me anymore. You can interview me on your show, but you're on my show.

So now I need to ask you questions. I don't care how many trains go by. You're going to answer questions.

All right, let's talk about let's talk about storytelling. We hear all about story arcs and stuff. Give us break, break down for us.

If you're shooting a short video, what is a story arc and how important is it in a, in a, you know, a five minute video that's kind of an overview of a company or a five minute video like the, like the great video I saw that you created for a personal injury attorney, which was, which was fantastic. How, how important is the arc and how do you come up with what the arc is going to be? Well, you know, I don't work with formulas. I, uh, not sure why that is.

And that's not even like a conscious decision. It's just, you look at the material that you have and you find the story. It's not like every single video is going to start with one day I was racing across the, you know, the street with 29 other folks and along came, you know, that's not how everyone's going to start.

In fact, you know what? I can actually tell you why I like to keep things interesting. And I want for each of my clients to feel that their video is uniquely theirs and uniquely represents them and nobody else. So I can't say it all.

They all have this same start or finish, but what they, what they all have is an element of storytelling because stories are how we communicate the real impact of what we do. If I say, you know, I I'm a communicator. I tell stories, whatever.

But when I say, when I told the story of this particular personal injury attorney, he found out about somebody reached out to him and that person's life changed. And just as you described why you are here today, you know, that there was this incident that happened in your life that took you in a completely unexpected direction. We all have those moments and we have the opportunity to create those moments for our clients.

And that's what keeps us hooked in is making that kind of transformational impact on a client through storytelling. Stories are irresistible. I mean, it's from the time we're children, it's how we are taught things.

It's how we learn things. And it's the lessons that we retain are the ones that have stories. And I'm sure there is a neurological reason for that.

That's not my expertise. I just know that it works. I know that when someone says, well, I met this guy, you know, first of all, I'm hooked.

I'm hooked. As opposed to here are the 10 reasons you should be using video marketing. Oh my God, wake me up when it's over.

You're never going to believe. Yeah. That's anything that starts with, you're never going to believe you got me.

If I'm never going to believe it, I got to hear it. Well, we are, we are attracted to learn about what other human beings are doing. We can't help it.

Yeah, no, no. I look, I I'm a, I'm a huge fan. And I, the way I think of it is I think about, you know, people in cave, cave people times, right.

They sat around the fire and they did something right. They must've, they drew pictures. They told stories about their day of conking, you know, a saber tooth tigers on the head and dragging them back to the camp.

Right. I mean, that's what they did for entertainment growing up. When I was a kid, my, my grandparents, and now I'm going to reveal how old I really am.

My grandparents had like a black and white TV that got 13 stations. And of those 13 stations, like channel 12 never worked. So it was really only 12 stations.

So when, you know, all the, all the news was on or something, it was time to sit around the dining room table and the adults had coffee and they told stories and that's what people did to, you know, to entertain themselves. And so I don't understand where we as a, as kind of a society went off the rails and all of a sudden we became people who just spew lists or, you know, and, and part of this is the fault of, you know, PowerPoint, like PowerPoint really has made us very stupid. Like PowerPoint, people use PowerPoint as a, as a teleprompter, and they should be using PowerPoint to, if they, if they're going to use it at all, they should be using PowerPoint in a physical presentation to show pictures that evoke emotion.

They shouldn't be using it with, for, to, to demonstrate any words or as a crutch to be able to, to be able to tell their story. What is it, Melissa, when, when people come to you and they let's say they're, they're, they have a, they have dry material and it's a, you know, it's a, it's a tough topic. Like a, like let's say there was a, not a cosmetic surgeon, but some other medical procedure or some doctor.

Right. And I, and I can give you, I can give you an example and you can tell me how you would make it interesting. Right.

So there's a, here in Miami, there's a, there's a prostate doctor that does videos. Okay. You can just imagine what these videos are like.

Like what, how do you take a terrible topic or a topic that's just really tough and like, you know, sex it up to the point where people are going to want to watch the video. What do you do when that client comes to you and this is somebody you really could serve because they really need you. How do you, how do you juice that up so that it's, so that it gets interesting.

You get into the emotional topics. You get into, um, did anybody in your family do this before you tell me about that? But did you ever witness something like that? Tell me about a client of yours, a patient who you were their last shot. Tell me how that went down.

Tell me, and tell me if you hear from them still, when do you hear from them? How often, you know, you just, you look at the, you look at the subjects that, that move all of us because we're, we are pretty, we all pretty much wired the same way to respond to certain things, to give an emotional response to certain things. So I dig into the things that I find interesting and by extension, most of us find interesting. It's really that part of it.

Isn't that complicated? Um, but I also pivot if I, if I'm not finding what I need here, I'll, I'll try something over there. Cause some people, some people do have boundaries, you know, that you've got to dance around. So talk about, talk about your process when you, um, when you're, uh, when you're working with someone, how, I would imagine what you just described is probably the most challenging part of the process in, in a lot of ways, right? Because you know, you know how to make something look good, right? You know how to frame a shot, you know what the, you know, what B roll you want to get based on what the story is after they tell it, right? So you, you know, all of that stuff, it's getting to what the emotional resonance is going to be.

So what's your process like? How do you pull that out of the people that you're working with? Like, do you, do you sit with them for a day? Is it, is it an hour interview? Do you interview them over the phone? Do you follow them around? Well, I vastly prefer to interview in person because then I can back in the day, shake their hand. Um, you know, I can look them in the eye. We're sitting in the same space and I, um, I'm an animated person that encourages them to be a little bit more animated.

And I coach, I mean, I couch a lot of my questions with how do you feel when instead of tell me about, because if you say, tell me about, you're not necessarily going to get at the emotional content, but how did you feel when he walked in the room? You know, how did you feel when the judge made that announcement? How did you feel when the settlement came through? How did you feel when you woke up in the hospital? You know, these kinds, that's how you get at those. It sounds so simple, but I think when somebody can tell that you are truly engaged and not reading off of a list of the 10 best questions for every interview, honestly, a really good interview is when you throw the list away because you realize you have something much more interesting going on already because you went off script. The objective of an interview is to find the better story because everybody has access to the little blurb on your website or whatever, but how do you get at the deeper, better story? That's, that's the objective of an interview.

And you know how it is. You do it all the time. You dig a bit, you try over here, you try over there.

Yeah, no, I, I do. You know, I, I get it, I get it to a certain extent, but I feel like the way I feel about what I do is I like, I, I've got, I've got time. I can, you know, even if it's only 30 minutes, I've got, you don't have time, right? Right.

You've got, you've got 20 minutes. I mean, if you're lucky, I mean, you know, it might, it might not be if you're, let's say you're doing a video and it's, it's part of, you know, it's, let's say you're doing a video for a, for an evidentiary presentation for a lawyer or, you know, something like that. You got like five minutes, right.

And you got to make a connection with the jury and it's all gotta be admissible. So here's what I want you to do. I want you to think about the answer to this and I, and I want you to give us the answer in just a sec.

What I, what I want to know is how do you test your content to make sure, look, your gut is probably fantastic. You've been doing this for a while and everything that I've seen that you've done has been spot on, but I don't know if that's your first take or your 15th take, right? So how do you test your content to know that it's going to resonate with the right, with the audience? Cause it could be good if it's good for Melissa, that's fine, but it could be good for Melissa. It could be good for the client that you have, but it might not be good for their audience.

So how do we know that what you're creating is going to work with the audience? Don't answer, take a minute and think about it because I need to remind people that we're brought to you by Sandrowski Corporate Advisors. That may seem like a hard term, but it's really not because here's the thing. Sandrowski Corporate Advisors can help you when you're going through something really emotional, like a litigation event.

So let's say you're a lawyer and you're in the middle of a partnership dispute. One partner says a business is worth X. The other partner says the business is worth Y. What do you do? Well, you're going to have to get someone to value the business and there's nobody better at doing this. I can say it with complete confidence than Sandrowski Corporate Advisors.

Why? Because it's not just making sure the business is worth what everybody says it's worth. It's also convincing the judge. And what does that mean? That means you got to be able to explain complex stuff in a way that a layman can understand it.

And a judge is there to measure the law, apply the law and the facts and determine an outcome. He's not there to do math. So the folks at Sandrowski, particularly John Alfonsi, who heads up the litigation support and valuation department are fantastic at taking complex issues and making them really easy to understand.

John's a college professor. He does this all day, every day. He knows how to do it.

He can take your financials after they do the valuation and help the judge see that your business should be worth what it's supposed to be worth. So if you're a lawyer and you need help with something like this, I want you to call 866-717-1607, 866-717-1607. Sandrowski Corporate Advisors, they can do this with anyone all over the country.

They've done it for years. Ask for John if you're doing a litigation support, if you have a litigation support issue or you need a business valuation issue. Sandrowski Corporate Advisors, they're a CPA firm with a different perspective.

We're also brought to you by My Revenue Roadmap Guide. Listen, you need to develop business and you need to do it based on relationships and based on thought leadership. I don't want you using bus bench advertising.

I don't want you doing some goofy hokey TV crap. I mean I saw something on TV the other day from my personal injury attorney in Texas, Hank the Hammer. Oh my God, God help us if you're doing that.

You need a guide to develop business for your professional services firm. You can use My Revenue Roadmap Guide to do it. I'm going to give it to you for free.

Here's what you got to do. Go to revenueroadmapguide.com, revenueroadmapguide.com. Enter your contact info. You can download the same guide I use for my clients and you can do it for free.

It's my gift to you for watching, for listening. I appreciate you being here. Go to revenueroadmapguide.com, download it today.

You'll be glad you did. We're talking to Melissa Costello. She is the video expert you need to help you tell a compelling story to the people you want to do business with you.

I want you to reach out to her at 312-305-7500, 312-305-7500. All right, Melissa, before we went on that break, I asked you a question. So tell us, how do you do it? How do you determine whether, so you know, so how do you test the content to know whether the people on the other side who are watching the video, this is going to work? This is a technique that I can't say I consciously developed, but from the beginning when I had a production company in LA and I was a director of television commercials for many years and, you know, worked with big national brands and I discovered then, and you're doing take after take after take after the same line, same line.

As soon as the tear duct got activated, I had it. I was like, great, we can move on. And it wasn't that what they were saying was emotional, intrinsically emotional.

It's that they delivered it in a way that felt authentic. And I was like, there it is. Okay, next scene.

And the same thing is still true today. When I'm in an interview and by the way, my whole family is, we're a very porous bunch emotionally. We are, you know, the first to laugh, the first to cry.

And I cry often in interviews and I laugh often in interviews and I just give people full disclosure upfront, which also gives them permission to be emotional. And I'll go, it's sincerely, I easy cry. So I'll just go, Oh, that was wonderful.

I think we're done. Yeah. So it's like we're two sides of the same coin.

So I did, uh, again, I did an early, an interview earlier today. I talked to an immigration attorney and we talked about the first time I went to a naturalization ceremony. And as I, you know, when people are sworn in to become citizens of the U S and for me, my own personal belief is as someone who was born here, I take this for granted.

And I know a lot of people who are born in the U S take our citizenship, our, you know, this, this great gift that we've been given to live here. We take it for granted. So in going to a national naturalization ceremony, I was, I was a mess.

It was like a wedding and a funeral combined. And I was just, uh, just a ball of mush. So this woman is describing this immigration attorney.

We're talking about, I mean, we're talking about immigration law. Okay. It's not an emotional topic.

Now she's telling me about a client that went through all this trouble and then came to this naturalization ceremony. And I'm standing here like, thank goodness we have two feeds and they can cut away from me because I was a mess. Like she's, I'm muting my mic.

I'm, I got tissues. I'm reaching for the tissues. So yeah, I like, you know, for me, it's, it's always been an easy thing.

And for years I tried, when I spoke from the stage to suppress that, right. I tried not to get emotional. And then I told, uh, I taught in one speech I was given, and somebody asked me a question and I told kind of a nine 11 story and I got emotional and the reaction from the audience was unbelievable.

And I'm like, God, I got to cry all the time. This is freaking great. Like, so, so yes, I, you know, I, I, uh, I'm with you.

Uh, it's inconvenient. My kids make fun of me. Like, you know, the, there are commercials that make me cry.

I'm, I'm a mess. It's just terrible. Like you can't watch TV with me.

It's just awful. There's some things I watch. Like my wife will come in the bedroom sometimes and I'm watching Facebook videos and I'm sobbing.

And she's like, what is wrong with you? Well, you know, this is one of the greatest misconceptions about people in media. People say to me all the time, Oh, do you watch a movie and go, yeah, I can just see the crane off to the writer. Here comes the boom.

People in media, in my experience are the opposite. We are the ones who fall for everything we, and we became engaged in working in media because we found it so powerful and so moving. So yeah, I mean, let it rip.

That's emotionally. I agree with you. Yeah, I agree with you.

I agree with you a hundred percent. And here's, and here's the thing. You can go like, you're probably like me.

You go to a theater performance or you can watch a political debate and you can see somebody do something and go, that's, that's it. Like, like with a political debate, for example, you go, that's the moment. That's, that's your soundbite.

That's the cutaway. And it's, it's almost never the contrived zinger. It's always the thing when somebody, you know, when, when somebody is speaking from a point that's their truth, right.

And that's, and that's a relative thing for a sub because some people believe things to be true that aren't true. But if they're speaking with conviction and you can see and feel the emotion and the line is delivered perfectly or the, you know, just the, the body language conveys that they really believe this and they're passionate about it. You can point to it and you can go, that's it.

You know, I mean, but you, you can make that, what you do is you make that happen though. How do you, but how do you make that happen in people who are untrained? Melissa, that's the thing, right? How do you get them to like, like for example, so you're, let's say you work with a litigator and you do work with lawyers. You work with a lot of lawyers.

You work, you're working with a litigator. They practice not being emotional, right? Because they don't want to, they want to have a poker face. They don't want the jury to see it.

So how do you get that out of them on a video? You know, Dave, I feel like you're asking me the same question over and over again, but let me just say, I, I, I think that they, first of all, can feel that I am sincerely interested in finding out. It's not just a means to an end. I am a glutton for emotion.

I'm a glutton for emotional stories and for authenticity because authenticity is what I find so moving. So I tell them upfront, I don't, please don't be offended if I try to redirect a conversation. I'm trying to get at your pulse.

I'm trying to get at your personal story. I'm trying to get at your history and I'm going to keep digging until I get there. And, and, and I think also the fact that I am so emotional, Dave, you know, again, gives them permission, you know, to follow my lead.

They also look at my work and know that I never expose a client in a video. I wouldn't dream of it. They come across, you know, they come across as people in control, but people who are fully dimensional, you know, like I never, never, never, never show people crying.

I don't believe in it. I think it's too manipulative. I think it's just unfair.

I think it's taking advantage of a person, but there's a moment right before you cry. And there's a moment after you cry that has this kind of vulnerability that's even more powerful. So I'm more apt to go for that.

And you can see that. They look at my work and they trust me as a result. Yeah.

Well, and this is not a journalistic endeavor. You're there to make them look good. So they, you know, they're there, they should be in that mindset to begin with.

Right. Talk a little bit, talk a little bit about persuasion and, um, testimonials, but capturing authentic testimonials so they don't look like hostage videos. Right.

I see so many of these people with big checks, right? Yes. Uh, hammer, wedge and thump got me $5 million. I am so grateful.

My life will never be the same. So true. So how do we capture, you know, how this person's life was transformed because of the work so-and-so did for them.

How do you do that? Well, as I'm sure you know, cause you, you, this is the way you run your show. You don't go, go, you ask a question, you ask a, and you ask an authentic question that they can feel you're interested in the response. You're interested to find out where it's going to go.

Um, so you turn it into a conversation instead of a presentation. You take it out of the realm of performance and keep it in the realm of an authentic exchange and everything falls away. That's the objective, the lighting, the green screen, the sound guy, the, you know, the cameraman, everybody goes away.

And it's just this, it's me looking at you and you looking at me. And the reason that testimonial is so very powerful is, is well actually now that I think of it, the reason is that, um, you know, it used to be in the old days of getting to know a firm or a company that makes something is all they had to do is say, I'm Melissa Costello. I am the best director in the country.

And people would go, well, okay, I guess she is. She says she is. And then along comes Facebook and along comes apps like Yelp.

And we discover, wait, we don't have to listen to what that lady says. Let's see what her customers say. And suddenly we all became habituated to learn about a company through the messaging we get from their actual clients, which is of course a much better way to evaluate the impact of what you're doing, the impact of your product or your service.

So, but you're right. That's a great idea. But if the testimonial feels false or forced or bored, how about that? I, uh, you know, somebody, somebody isn't really talking to them.

I needed to get my taxes done anyway. I figured I would go to Joe Smith's tax service. I got the biggest refund of my life.

I am so happy. Call Joe. Yeah, right.

Forget about it. Forget about it. You know what? That might've worked 20 years ago.

Maybe even not. I don't know. Now talk about the, talk about the process, right? Cause there's, there are, there's like some wedding videographer right now is walking into an office and they're going to, they're going to shoot a video for somebody.

And that's going to be a horrible mistake, right? Cause they got a camera with a, with a road microphone bolted to the top and they're going to go, okay, go. And that's what the video is going to look like. What is, what is your process like when you're working with a client? It's um, it's very unusual actually.

Thank you for asking. Uh, it's unusual because I've been in the business a long time and I've tried shooting this way and I've tried shooting that way and I found a hybrid form of shooting that allows me to get a ridiculous amount of content recorded in one day. So I have three cameras running all day.

I have one camera in a room with me and a green screen and a cameraman and a sound guy and I'm doing nothing but interviews all day long. The other two cameras are shooting B roll. I've given them very specific shot lists, images with descriptions.

Okay. And then this person turns to that person and the camera pans to the left and then we cut, you know, things like that. So they've got an ambitious shoot day, the two cameras on their own and I've got an ambitious shoot day in the green screen room.

And the result is you get hours and hours and hours of stories. Whereas if I was also shooting the B roll, you'd get half as much. Um, so you, you wind up with this vault, you could put it in the video of all the wind up with this enormous amount of content that you can go back to and go back to and share and tell different stories from.

It's almost inexhaustible. And that's the idea because shooting is expensive. You know, getting all these people together might as well get, you know, the biggest bang for your buck by covering a whole lot of material instead of like, I don't shoot for one video.

I, I used to, when I had my production company, my job was to shoot for one 32nd TV ad. Now I shoot for endless content and I find it much more interesting and I find it gives, it gives my clients far greater ROI. So that's the unusual part about it.

The rest of it, like in the beginning, sit down with leadership, ask them all kinds of questions. Some of them they're expecting, some of them they're not expecting. And I want that to happen.

I want them to dig a little deeper into why we're sitting at this table talking about documenting something that's really meaningful to you. Tell me why, tell me where that started. And then you're going to have to tell me again on the day of the shoot.

So I'm trying to figure out who are you, what makes you different from all the other firms that do what you do. And then based upon that, that drives my shot list in the way I put together the shoot. Makes sense.

Yeah. Yeah. It makes perfect sense.

It's a, it's a, um, it's a very professional way to do it compared to, Oh, this looks good. Let's go over here and shoot something here. Right.

Which is what most people do. Now explain to folks the value of the editing process because when, like for me, people who have just enough knowledge, like somebody like me, that's dangerous, right? So unless you have mastery like you or have no knowledge and you're completely naive, being in the middle is a very dangerous thing because you think if you're me, the editing process is all about technical edits and how things blend together and whatever. That's not what you look for when you edit.

When you're, when you're in the editing room with an editor, you're not editing, you're sitting behind the editor and next to the editor and there's somebody doing the technical crap. You're there. What are you looking for? Um, well, they're a good question.

I've never been asked this question. That's interesting. I, well, first of all, after all these interviews, then those interviews get transcribed.

I'm given literally 80 pages, you know, of text to sort through and highlight and start to cut together a script for a two to three minute video. So a one page script. So I will do that and then I will give it to the editor.

She'll cut it together and then we'll review it together. And just because it looks good on paper, it doesn't mean it sounds right. So you might hear what looks like a really strong statement actually was just a throwaway and you go, okay, well we're going to take that out.

Oh, but that's great. So you have to, it's this constantly shifting and moving things around and responding to, responding to where it's working and where it's not working and finding the best. You know, we started this out with you asking about the arc of the story.

It's something you find, right? And a lot of it is melody. A lot of it. Does the melody when he says this sound like the opening of a story or does it sound like the end of the story and that will determine where it goes in the script.

So it's an awful lot of feeling it out. Then once we get the assembly cut approved and that's strictly what, you know, the, the sync scenes, the content, the, uh, the text, then you start dropping in the B roll and playing with that and finding humor in that and finding surprise in that. Then you add the music, then you add the titles and at each step you're adding another dimension to it and you end up with a round, interesting complex expression of who you are and what you do.

It's really fun. It's a, it's a, it's a really fun thing to be a part of. Yeah.

I mean, it sounds like it's, it sounds like you're, you're, you're passionate about it and that's what, that's what makes it fun. This is, you know, the fact that you find it fun is what makes it, you know, is what makes it enjoyable. I want to ask you about one more thing and then I want you to give us three things we should take away from our time together and that is managing the client, right? So, um, people spend too much time watching video, whether it's on television or now streaming or YouTube, which YouTube is like a blessing and a curse, right? Because it's a blessing because people like me can get my message out where I wouldn't have a vehicle to do it otherwise.

But it's a curse because what resonates with people is not necessarily the best video, right? So how do you, how do you manage, you know, it's a, it's goofball crap. It's, you know, guys, bad, that's dude, perfect bouncing a ball off the roof that goes in a basketball hoop a block away, right? That's, you know, and you know, that's what everybody wants now. So how do you manage the client given that you can, you can do anything with a camera and you know, through editing and with a green screen in the background, but because you can do everything doesn't mean you need to do everything, right? So how do you manage the client and go, I know you want, you know, I know you want a room full of puppies and kittens, but puppies and kittens are not going to get people to hire you to do their banking, right? So how do you manage the client to help them understand that you know, based on the interviews, what the audience, what's going to resonate with the audience and this is what you think we should do.

Well, uh, you know, it was a lot harder back in the Hollywood days when you, when they gave you a script and everybody had a prescribed idea of exactly how that commercial would play when it was shot. So my interpretation was competing with everybody else's interpretation of what a great, exciting, authentic expression of the script is. This is what I no longer have to deal with.

This is the good news. So I go into this, uh, kind of these kinds of, uh, assignments and a client will say, so what's the, uh, what's the, what's the video going to feel like? What's it going to be about? And I say, candidly, I don't know. Let's find out.

We'll find out on the day of the shoot some of it, but we won't really know until we start cutting it together and putting that next to that. So I feel very fortunate at this stage in my career that my clients, uh, literally never say what I don't, um, why did you, how about another, it doesn't happen, but I will say this. I am a, I, you know, you're not, you're not getting notes.

They're not giving you notes. You know, I know you would think, but there's, but you know what, Dave, I am, I, this is the word I swore. I wouldn't say anymore.

I'm a perfectionist and I don't let it go until it's just right. I don't, I don't show it. I don't show it.

I keep, I go, ah, I don't like that at it. I don't like that color. The music is hitting at the wrong time and I keep moving it, uh, until it's just right.

Until it sings, you know, without you going, wait, what was that? Yeah. And you do this, you know, we do the same thing this way though, Dave, you know, this will be edited. Thank God.

Um, well, I mean, we pretty much just, we pretty much just run it together and you know, we're gonna, we're gonna edit it to make sure that, uh, to make sure that everything is in focus, but that's about it. Too many of these. There won't be, I'm not cutting anything out.

This is all going to be in. I promise you'll be in focus. I don't guarantee anything other than that.

So now I want you to think of, I want you to think of three things we should take away from this interview and there'll be no edits. So get them right now. I'm just kidding.

I want to think of three things. I want you to think of, I don't want to think of anything. I want you to think of three things.

We're going to take away from our time together today. Okay. First of all, let me compliment you on that is like the best threat warning.

There is no editing here. We don't do any freaking editing. It's all going in.

Get it right. So listen, good, bad or ugly. They're getting Melissa Costello, whether they like it or not.

Think of three things. Think of three things we should take away from our time together. I got it.

I got to get some people to give some business to Sandrowski Corporate Advisors. So listen, you need serious people handling your accounting cause you sure as hell don't have serious people doing this video. So here's what you need to do.

You need to call Sandrowski Corporate Advisors because there's nobody more serious at saving you money in doing your taxes. I want you to reach out to them today. Even if you're happy with the person who's doing your taxes, let them look them over.

If they can't do anything for you, they're not going to, they're not going to charge you an arm and a leg. They're going to tell you they can't do anything for you. But if you're a small business and you're a business owner and you're going to sell your business, Sandrowski Corporate Advisors can apply something that's called the qualified small business tax exemption.

It's a real thing. They need to look at your business and go back five years and examine how your business is organized and how you've been paying your taxes. Now if you're selling in the next five years, Sandrowski can help you.

They can position your business for sale, but you got to call them now. The best time to call them would have been when you started your business. You didn't do it because you weren't listening to the show, so you didn't know about them.

Well now you do. So call them today. Give them a call at 866-717-1607, 866-717-1607.

Sandrowski Corporate Advisors, they're a CPA firm with a different perspective. When you're ready to sell your business, if you're within five years, call them. They will help you save a ton of money on the capital gains taxes that will come when you liquidate your business.

You're going to want to call them because we're talking about real money. 866-717-1607, Sandrowski Corporate Advisors. They've been doing this for over 35 years.

All right, Melissa Costello. Now, what are the three things we should take away from our time together? Okay. Number one, authenticity.

Don't do anything without it. Just don't. If there is an element of falsehood to it or reluctance, skip it.

Number two, stories. Got to tell stories. Otherwise people don't really understand what you do.

You may be a lawyer, but what you do is you transform lives by you fill in the blanks. And third, video. I mean, the best, actually, the best way to express why video is something a client of mine, Mark Dabowski, who I hope will soon be a guest on your show, Dave.

And Mark said to me after the experience of working with me, said anyone who doesn't have video on their site, and the best video they can afford is losing business every day. They just don't know it. You know, Melissa, I, I, oh, perfect.

I can't tell you how fun this has been. We could talk for another hour. This has been a, this has been so much fun.

I really enjoyed it. Thank you for joining me here today. And thank you for being such a good sport and putting up with me.

By the way, folks, we're shooting this at like five o'clock after a, she's had a long day. I've had a long day and we both probably should be drinking at this point. It's time.

Next time we're doing a role reversal, Dave. It's the me interviewing Dave Lorenzo show. Melissa, I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you. Alrighty folks.

That'll do it for another episode of the inside BS show. If you like what you heard and how could you not like what you heard today? Give us a, Hey, now down in the comments, that's right. We read all the comments, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

In fact, if you curse me out in the comments, I'll curse you right back. So go do it right now. Hey, now down in the comments, tell us what you liked.

Tell us what you want to see more of. This is the inside BS show. My name is Dave Lorenzo.

I'm here every day with a brand new interview until tomorrow. Here's hoping you make a great living and have a great life.