Hey now, welcome to another edition of the inside BS show. My name is Dave Lorenzo. I'm the godfather of growth.

And today we're talking about something that is intriguing to me. And I hope is intriguing to you. We're covering a very, very nuanced area of what we do and an even more nuanced area of asset protection, wealth accumulation, and for lack of a better word, life insurance that the ultra high net worth and the high net worth use to help themselves save money when they're tax planning.

Now, if you're thinking to yourself, well, I'm not ultra high net worth yet. Why do I need to know this? If you work with business owners or you are a business owner, you should aspire to be someone who needs these strategies. So I'm going to let Nicola share with you all the details about that before I do, let me bring her on.

Hello, Nikki G. It is great to see you today. How are you? I'm doing great, Dave. How are you? I am doing absolutely fantastic.

So I know you accumulate wealth by burying it in coffee cans in your backyard. So you probably have no need for the strategies we're going to talk about today. But this is a topic that should be near and dear to your heart because you have kind of an affinity or a predilection for life insurance and insurance policies in general.

How are you introduced to insurance? What was the first what was your first exposure to insurance? My father was really into insurance. So he actually had a series six license. He did not end up becoming a stockbroker or working in the finance world, but he had a number of licenses.

And that was part of what he was doing early on with his own wealth building and planning for our future as children. So the first time I heard about life insurance policies, he put policies on our lives when we were young kids. And those policies are carried forward even into our adult lives.

So I really took on that education at a young age and then incorporated it into my own planning for my future, both in terms of your wealth as well as in terms of risk protection for businesses. So, yes, I'm a large proponent of insurance because I understand the many ways in which it can be used to protect our lives and to protect our future and to actually build wealth for us. So let's fast forward now to your legal career.

What what was the first thing you worked on in your legal career that had insurance issues associated with it? First week on the job, I was working early on out of law school with a construction litigation firm. So that is stop number one is putting your carrier on notice. So you better understand what that means and who you're putting on notice of what whenever you're handling those types of disputes.

But you truly have to understand insurance and know what to do with it when you work in the legal space, especially litigation work, trial work, because those policies are very valuable in terms of the claims, paying expenses for your clients, looking to those for your potential damages. If you're on the other side, the plaintiff side. So you have to really have a good understanding of all of that.

So let's bring on our guests, because there is a kind of a different twist on this. And it's something if the foundation of it is something that you and I talk about all the time and it's funding by cell agreements using insurance policy. So go ahead and bring our guests on and then we can get right into what we're talking about and why it's so important.

It is my pleasure to bring on Adam Senescu, who is a principal with German Blowery. He uses life insurance in a way that helps you with wealth planning. He works with high net individuals.

He works with high net worth families to be able to do this and to plan for their future. So let me go ahead and bring on Adam. Adam, it's great to see you.

Thank you for joining us on the show. Thank you, Nikki. Thank you, Dave, for having me included.

No, it's great to have you with us. Sure. So, Adam, I kind of want to start with the basics so folks know what we're talking about here.

So why don't you describe for us and your words a little bit about the work you're doing now and let's make sure that we explain what private placement life insurance is, because I know we're going to be referencing that quite a bit throughout our show today. Wonderful. So, yeah.

So Jones Lowry is a firm that spans 40 plus years. Between myself and my partners, we have north of 250 years of advanced insurance planning experience. Every one of us are advanced designation holders.

So we're either recovering attorneys, recovering CPAs, masters of tax, CFPs, CLUs. Everybody in our organization is required to have that kind of education because we really look at what it is that we do as advisory and not sales. Because at the end of the day, our end user is very intelligent.

They've built businesses. They've built generational wealth. The problem is, is that they're constantly put in a position to make decisions about their finances without all the information.

And when you're made to make that decision, you just think that you're making the right decision without necessarily contemplating the long term results of that decision. So we really try to come to the table from all facets, even though we don't practice law and we are not tax practitioners. Because of the knowledge and the resources that we have, we try to come to the table with everything thought about in advance so that your only choice, like most CEOs, they don't know everything about everything, but they surround themselves with the experts who can then digest all of that information into a very simple yes or no because it either makes sense or it doesn't.

So we kind of try to take that same approach to our business owners and our family offices, et cetera, to be able to put that kind of a decision in front of them where it makes sense or it doesn't for their families, their businesses, et cetera. So that's how Jones Lowry was kind of created and what we've kind of built over the last bunch of years. To get into a more technical of what it is we do on a daily basis, we do insurance planning for wealth transfer.

So that's the primary use of life insurance. It's how do I pass on more money to subsequent generations? And why I say wealth transfer is because most people need insurance, but they need it differently. The mass affluent need income replacement.

What happens if one of the breadwinners passes away premature? So they need to protect children, spouses, you know, businesses. Then once you accumulate a meaningful amount of wealth, now you have to start dealing with your secret partner in your wealth, also known as the government, because above a certain number, they are already your partner in your money. It's just you don't realize it while you're alive and then somebody has to deal with it when you're dead.

So if you can understand that your partner is there and you can start planning for it, then utilizing insurance is nothing more than buying dollars out of discount for future delivery. And how I try to explain it to our business owners because they get it so much better is is that make it a business decision. Let's not talk about the word insurance because let's face it, everybody hates the word insurance.

You dealt with your car. You dealt with your home. One day you had insurance.

The next day they took it away from you and you had no say in that. That's not the kind of insurance I want to live in. I want to live in the world of insurance that you buy that will be there when you need it and has an organization behind it that is there to help you make sure that you get every last penny you deserve.

So that's really our day to day focus. Now how that mutates is then you bring in the business owners and you bring in things like you said buy sells closely held family businesses. How do I transfer this that I built for so long to the next generation and continue its success but not risk all of my dollars or my future in the next generation to run the company.

Because what we see with very affluent families G1 makes the money G2 enjoys and spends the money and by G3 or G4 they may not even know that G1 was super successful. So if you can put in enough planning on the front end and you can see you know the forest for the trees you end up with a much greater success for your business for your family for everything. So that's where we spend our days.

And how do you really start those conversations in terms of like how you're going to figure out exactly what's going to work for a particular family because we do know they're all distinct. Every family business every family office is different from the other one. So what are some of the kind of like diagnostic questions you'd be asking when you start to understand what that looks like before you start proposing strategies.

Right. So that absolutely the discovery portion is a very in-depth you know conversation that we have not just with the family but also the practitioners involved. It's in the ultra affluent space and the C-level executive space.

These individuals are not making decisions without kind of buy in from their other advisors. And to Dave's question at the front end and stuff of how do you find your business and stuff. My practice is very advisor driven.

When I started my career I went directly to the consumer. It was awesome because I didn't have to wait for other people to make decisions because the end user I was talking directly to them. What I found is as my business progressed and as I went up in the affluence market.

I could sell to the end user all I wanted. But they were going to go back to their advisors and I wasted all of this time and energy selling them on a great idea that their advisor shoots down and sometimes because the advisor wasn't the one who brought them the idea. So it had to have been a bad idea if they didn't think about it.

So I decided that if my end user was this type of an individual I was going to go and market to their advisors. I was going to try to save myself time and have a very B to B type of relationship because then when I could appeal to the advisors who were advising these clients then all of a sudden the buy in was quick. Yeah this is a great idea.

This is what's important for this client. You absolutely addressed X Y and Z. So. Now when we get into this.

You know diagnostic type of a conversation. We try to include the advisors in it because we don't want our client being the middle person amongst their advisors playing that game a telephone A is exhausting and B these individuals as brilliant as they are and what it is that made them affluent sometimes are just they're not experts in everything else. So having them relay the information they may exclude something that they think is insignificant but could be super significant from a practitioner standpoint.

So Adam has that approach with advisors shortened the sales cycle for you since the trust is passed through the advisor to the client on your behalf. So absolutely. Once an individual is in.

Produced by their advisor. We already have that warm welcome. Hey I trust my advisor.

They thought I should speak with you. Tell me why I need X Y and Z or show me how this enhances what I did. The problem is to build a practice that is advisor driven takes time.

That's not something you know that's probably the longest part of that strategy is building the confidence amongst the advisors to be able to say without a doubt. Hey go work with Adam or go work with Dave or go work with Nikki. But once you get there and you put in the time.

The success rate is astronomically better. What was the key for you when you're connecting with these advisors to get them to trust you. So those that didn't know you.

How did you connect with them and earn their trust. So when I moved my practice from the mass affluent comprehensive planning space to the very niche ultra affluent C level executive space. It's not like you can go to the advisors and go oh one day I'm this and the next day I'm this expert and you know you're a hundred million dollar guy.

Now I'm perfect for them too. So I spent the first couple of years really understanding what the practitioners in that space were doing. I wanted to be able to converse with them in their language and I wanted them to understand that I understood the kind of planning they were doing.

And no I'm not a lawyer but I know enough about law and have been in this space I'm in for as long as I've been that I've read more trust than a handful of attorneys have read themselves. So I've gotten to learn the mistakes and the successes that these very high end practitioners have done. And so I took a personal interest in the work that they were doing.

I set the groundwork and to me merit is super important. Unfortunately especially in South Florida. Merit may not be the first thing that gets people to work together.

You know we went to high school together or we play pickleball together or I happen to meet you and we had a drink and I thought you were hilarious. So I think we should work together. So merit to me was the first thing.

So I wanted to show all these practitioners that I had the merit and the education and the knowledge to be able to be at the table with them. Once I did that and they understood that I knew what I was talking about then it was relationship building. Then it was hey do I want to spend time with you.

Do I want to have a drink with you. Do I care enough about you to check in with you. Those two components over a seven or an eight year period led to what has now been a very successful career over the last decade.

And I was going to ask you how many years and you already told us. I think that's so important to understand that this doesn't happen overnight and we have these conversations with other advisors. You have to put in the work to really find good partners that you can refer especially to family businesses and family offices because when you refer them as you've already alluded to you know that's your reputation.

So you better make sure that that person can fulfill that obligation. They can do a great job. They're going to make you look good too if you're bringing them in.

All of that takes time. Another question we get asked often that I'd like to ask you by other advisors is you know how do we find these other great advisors who are working with our ideal clients. You know that's something we work with them on but I really want to hear that from your perspective.

So I think first an understanding of your business has to be first and foremost. You have to kind of know where you want to be. Do you want to be a generalist or do you want to be an expert.

I actually find it harder to be a generalist than an expert because I get to spend all of my time focusing on a very narrow field that allows me to sit at that table as the one and only person. Once you understand your business I think you can kind of see which practitioners get those individuals more frequently. So if I were to look purely at wealth transfer the main people who are in the wealth transfer space are trust and estate attorneys and tax attorneys.

Those are like the first people that affluent families and executives go to to discuss how am I going to best be able to pass on my wealth to my family and so on. So inside of all of these organizations or practices there are high end affinity groups that you have to qualify for. So inside the trust and estate space there's something called ACTEC and no it's not a necessity to be an ACTEC attorney in order to to be it but in order to be part of ACTEC there is a fundamental baseline of merit education practicing that you have to have.

So while I spent a lot of time in the ACTEC space with those practitioners and got to know them and supported their ventures you know go sponsor something in another profession. I promise you they are very happy to take your money. You know that you do not have to be a CPA to go sponsor an AICPA event or you don't have to be an attorney to go sponsor ACTEC.

They want supporters so go be known in those areas. I would say that is probably the best way to get to know people in the space you want to be in. Yeah great great advice Adam and there's something I want to pick up on here that you mentioned with trust in the state attorneys.

If I recall correctly you told me that you have them in-house in your firm now that you've built and I want you to touch on that because that's very unique to me. I don't hear that often from folks who do what you do. So I want my clients time to be spent as best as possible kind of like in order to prepare for this conversation you provided a whole list of instructions and things to do to be better for this.

I want my clients time which is super valuable especially when they're talking about things they don't necessarily love to talk about you know death and taxes. I don't want them to have 700 conversations to realize that their mortality is in question. You know we all know that we don't have to be reminded.

I brought practitioners in at my expense in these specific high end areas so that we can have very advanced conversations not just with the end user but with their practitioners and you being an attorney know that communicating with another attorney is very different than communicating with another lay person because they get all the nuances that you have to deal with. So I decided that we were going to have very advanced practitioners in-house not to draft documents not to practice law not to do people's taxes but it was the best use of time for my advisors or their client the client's advisors and my clients themselves. So Adam let's start with a definition of private placement life insurance because you you work in that area.

Explain to the folks who are listening and watching what private placement life insurance is and who uses it to well who uses it and why they use it. So first off private placement life insurance or PPL as it's heard out in the public is just variable universal life insurance has all the same tax characteristics that everybody gets to enjoy with the traditional life insurance. You know the tax deferred growth the tax favorable distribution the ability to switch between underlying investments without recognizing gain the always income tax free death benefit and if it's owned properly a state tax free what separates PPLI from traditional life insurance is what you're able to own inside of the contract.

So traditional life insurance or variable universal life you can only invest in registered investments things you could find on the stock exchange things mean this you know mutual funds ETFs etc. All registered stuff now PPLI you get to invest in those unregistered things very tax inefficient vehicles hedge funds private equity private debt credit etc. That way when you go and invest in those inefficient tax investments you get the benefits of the life insurance so you get that tax deferred growth and so you're not recognizing gain like you would if you just own that hedge fund in a traditional brokerage account so you don't get K ones anymore which make people exceedingly happy and probably you know drive your CPA bill down too so maybe the CPAs are not as happy when you're in PPLI but it's not for everybody and the problem is is that all the marketing out there talks about all the great things and then they'll have some follow up article that's on page eight of a you know of a newspaper that then goes you know a week later that says oh no it's not for everybody but you won't pay attention to this while I sent out that other article you have to be an accredited investor or a qualified purchaser there are organizations that are making it more appealing or accessible by a wider population I don't believe that's always what's best for anything you can think about it like Mercedes or BMW when you know in the 80s Mercedes and BMW was this super fancy affluent modeled car and then over time they started getting into the more mass affluent market which kind of diluted the high end quality of their brand I think is very similar in this can people access it sure should they know because to really get the benefit and the cost of structuring and all of that you should be I would think prepared to go in with a million call it a million dollars a year over four or five years and if you're not willing to go in with that you can have a very similar structure you just can't invest in those unregistered products but if you're not at the affluence to be able to do that maybe you shouldn't be in unregistered products to begin with because the risk then is much greater and can you afford the loss because people just love to look at well I can get 40% return but when you put it on a risk spectrum in order to get 40% return you probably have to withstand an 80% loss people just don't ever think about the 80% loss they just want the 40% return so take us inside a private placement life insurance case study so how do you use it how do you save your clients big sums of money in taxes give us actually just go ahead and give us a case study so let's first talk about it because the initial impetus for going into PPLI is an income tax play not necessarily necessarily an estate tax play first and why I say it's an income tax play is because you get that tax deferred growth of the accumulation in it so we had a client who sold a business and he sells the business for you know 100 million recognizes 80 plus so he's got 80 plus million dollars his wealth manager was ready to get him on this great alternatives portfolio and they were going to invest in their brokerage account with a good chunk of that 80 million dollars their tax planner said hey Adam I have this situation this is what is about to be recommended is there a more efficient way to do this so we took a look at it they were going to invest in all of the things that you want for that high growth but in a very taxable type of environment inside of their brokerage account by changing that asset location because that's really what it is is a change in asset location from the brokerage account to inside the PPL I they were able to on design they're going to shut off four million bucks a year potentially of taxes as they were going to invest in heavily taxable short term gain type of investments so the asset manager is still managing the assets but instead of managing it in the brokerage account they're managing it inside the PPL I now and now they won't be taxed every time they make a move or every time there's a gain in their underlying investment so income tax check there we go another way to look at it is that already very wealthy dynastic family let's say we're already on G to G one did a great job did their planning put a ton of money outside of their estate they've since passed away their trust is now what's known as a non grant or trust because they've died so the tax is paid by the trust trust tax law is kind of mean because at the very lowest amount of income less than $20,000 they're at the highest income tax bracket inside of that trust account so any income that gets originated in this account now is taxed at the highest tax rate this trust has nine figures of cash in it that supports many generations of beneficiaries by moving some of those dollars that are in that trust to inside of a PPL I structure now they get to benefit and the income tax that the trust pays on an annual basis is much lower going forward because it's shielded by the insurance wrapper so that is on the wealth transfer side where it's already deep into a multi generational plan for the corporate consumer insurance is very powerful because it can sit on your balance sheet as an asset you still get all of those tax deferred benefits you get creditor protection especially inside Florida which is a very creditor protective state you can actually own PPL I on a corporate level known as you know coldly quote corporate owned life insurance and it sits on the balance sheet of the business it's accessible the accumulation inside of it but it gives you very many different benefits so closely held family businesses love to use structures like this on their balance sheet and if they're large enough and they have meaningful enough dollars to contribute PPL I may be a suitable solution than the traditional cash accumulating life insurance that they've been accustomed to so for those of our listeners who are thinking to themselves well how do I know if this is something that may be good for me what would you say to make them think of whether this should be something that they should have a conversation with you about or maybe it doesn't apply to them happy to have a conversation with anybody to kick the tires on any strategy they're welcome to reach out directly to me through you guys first and we can just talk about their specific situation because as you said everybody's situation is nuanced so I'd hate to put a general you know blanket out of who is for so I would say let's just have a conversation and I'm happy to have a no frills you know conversation there's no cost to it my my clock doesn't run by the second you know you won't hear the ticker in the background as the you know the cash register rings I think I just got the lawyer answer which tells me you're working with too many lawyers I guess you know what I think everybody deserves everybody deserves good advice let's have a conversation and we'll figure out if it's right for you or not I think that's a great approach and you're obviously a very relationship forward advisor so that all makes sense so let's let's ask another question that I do think our listeners are probably thinking to themselves about insurance so how do I know Adam if I'm overpaying I'm underinsured or both of those like what can they do and what conversation would you have with them if they're asking those questions I think everybody should be asking those questions including my clients I want them to feel confident enough in the work that I do that they could go get a second opinion because I'm confident enough that go get a second opinion and the Monday morning quarterback is not really going to change anything because I know when the plan is implemented at that moment that was the best plan at that time obviously situations change and I think sometimes people look back on things and go well why wasn't X Y and Z done but those things might not have even been available back when the plan was implemented so I think you have to take into account when your plan was implemented and change so I think we we do annual reviews at a minimum and depending on what level and what amount of wealth or what kind of contribution they are it can be even more frequently than annual but once a year we are reviewing what everybody's plans look like how they're performing are they ahead or behind what we anticipated when we built it because like I said things do change you know the thing I hate the most right now and I think in South Florida we all deal with it property and casualty insurance with our homes every year you get your renewal but for some reason the property and casualty world likes to call you two weeks before your renewal and say we need you to renew well two weeks before renewal doesn't give me time to go out to the market and understand what else is there so now I become handcuffed to where I'm at and most people have mortgages so they don't have the freedom to say you know what well that sounds like a terrible offer I'm just not going to have insurance right now because their mortgage companies require it so understand what you own review it regularly get a second opinion you know but we do audits for advisors all the time we had a big family who had 17 different policies that were acquired at very different times for very different reasons the advisor came to us and said we don't even know where to begin with this because these 17 different policies had five different life insurance advisors on different sides of the family and nobody was communicating or coordinating we were able to not only review what they had put it into a you know one pager that they could sit there and evaluate and look at everything together and then came up with recommendations to hey these are performing as good or better than we expected keep those the next is hey these are good but you've got to make some changes and now's the time to make the changes whether it's allocations adding more premium et cetera because their borderline not performing so let's cure those now and then the last ones are well these are terrible or these are no longer suiting your objective what are my options can I sell them in the open market can we what's known as 1035 and move the funds into a new contract like kind exchange like 1031 in real estate but in life insurance it's called 1035 or do we even need these policies still so in the case of the 17 they retained 11 they were able to move you know the last six they increased their overall rate of return by like 400 basis points just by reallocating premium and they ended up with the same amount of benefit for less out of pocket dollars that's not typical of everybody but those are the kinds of things when you review what you have regularly at least you know what your options are so Adam there's something that we tell our clients all the time and that's that they're far more likely to become disabled while they're working than they are to die while they're working so talk to us about the affluent or high net worth business owners and disability insurance is it more complex for people who make more money and what do you do with them when it comes to disability insurance great question and Dave that's a hundred percent correct in your working years you have a better chance of becoming disabled than you do dying when you go and sit there and you sit down with a client and you ask them what their most valuable asset is very often they don't think about it in the same manner they may say oh my giant home in Pinecrest or you know my Aspen house or X Y & Z but the individual's greatest asset is their ability to go to work and make an income or build a company in this case the problem is is the retail market has done such a bad job of educating the ultra affluent or the executives making north of seven figures because inside the retail market you are capped at maybe twenty thousand dollars a month of benefit you take a guy making two or three million dollars a year and you're like well I can get you two hundred and forty thousand dollars of tax-free replacement income how does that sound to you well that guy's income tax bill was four times that last year there's no way that he's gonna want to be or have that kind of small amount of protection problem is is what he doesn't know is that there's a specialty market out there to bridge that gap so instead of they may not even buy that twenty thousand dollar a month protection to begin with because in their mind it's such a big gap between where they are that they might as well save the premium dollars now I don't think that's a great idea because obviously I think insurance has a place and you have to understand how much risk you're willing to retain and how much risk you want to transfer because at the end of the day insurance is just risk transference there is a specialty excess market where we work with Lloyd's of London cover holders and build complex products just for individuals who make north of seven figures we see this a lot in the athlete and entertainer market where they insure their hands or they insure their ability to play a sport or you know their endorsement contract if they don't play X number of games they start losing money in the business owner market it's very similar so we had a client whose company was bought by VC and the venture capital company paid 150 million dollars for the company my client was the chief technology officer of that company and kind of the brain trust behind the technology that this company was buying they the VC company understood how much risk was there in this one individual so they came to us and said hey can we build something for this individual in case they're not able to go to work not die just not go to work because I don't know how we're gonna tell our investors that we just spent 150 million dollars on this and tomorrow that guy gets sick and can't come to work what's the value of our investment so amongst our cover holders we put together close to 90 million dollars of coverage for them they protected in case this individual couldn't show up to work the next day it protected all of their investment and then some and everybody ended up being happy with it the client ended up getting all of the payout on his money the VC company was comfortable with him going downhill skiing and flying on private jets and all those other things that you know become very risky so yes there is a tremendous disability gap between the benefits that you're provided at work your group benefits because there's a inherent conflict between your employer and you and group benefits are not free to the employer so they're trying to balance what that cost is for them and what the end benefit it is for you and there's an inherent conflict between those two things because what's the lowest cost for them is typically not what's best for you so you could only be covering a very small amount of your income that if your group benefits person or your HR department is interested in evaluating you're a law firm so often all these partners make meaningful money there's a huge gap between what you get at a law firm Nikki you know you were at a major law firm and then what you're ultimately taking home how do you protect that so I want to pick up on disability insurance on the business owner side so we've talked about it now when you're working with a company and you are receiving it through your benefits package but what what we see a lot of issues arise with buy sell agreements Adam and I've seen a lot of those agreements where they don't adequately protect the other partner so I want you to touch on it because I think you share that with me that you see some holes in the buy sell and I want you to talk about what what you're seeing and how you address it so let's just start at the buy sell side first Dave you and I get into business together we put in this money we say hey what happens if you or I don't come to work now I don't know your significant other but I didn't go into business with them I went into business with you so we need to have some agreement that says what happens if you or I don't come to work with your shares because I want to protect my interest and I you want to protect your interest now what's that valuation day one is not the same as what's that valuation five or seven years into it and the rookie mistake inside of buy sell agreements is putting a static figure as the value of determining what that company is worth if something were to happen and we all do the great thing of doing the right thing we go get our agreement etc and then we go and put it on a shelf and we go back to work and we go build this company and we never review it again until we either bring in a new partner or all of a sudden somebody's interested in looking to buy us and now we have to review all of our documentation and oh by the way our value of our business is 600 times greater now and we haven't accounted for that and nobody has reminded us hey go back and look so if something were to happen to us the risk is enormous so hopefully your advisors are constantly telling you to revisit these things by the way they call us and we look at it years before they sell that's the first thing we do everywhere from like a smaller size business to you know multinational corporations where it's like well we haven't updated our agreements and I mean years I've seen it years we'll be using the same form of agreements I'm like this is a mess we need to completely overhaul this first thing we do let me see your partnership agreement let me see your buy-sell and the first thing they do is go brought the partners on board and they haven't actually updated it's even account for partners for members like that too what we didn't even adjust for that and make sure that they were actually named in the agreement and folks let me tell you it's so much better if we ask then the buyer asks you definitely want us seeing it before the buyer sees it right so valuation clause in there as a equation make it something that moves with you and revisit it you know the same way as you read revisit your protections in your house and as the value of your home goes up or the value of your cars go up well the value of your business goes up and make sure you're constantly reviewing that so you don't have those gaps or if you do you acknowledge that you know the gap is there but you have figured out a way how to fill that because you don't need to use insurance for a hundred percent of that gap it's a very efficient way to fund that issue but it does not the only way all right so I got one last question and then I'll throw it back to Nicola for one last question let's talk about the multi-generational wealth prospect what is it that you do specifically because you have a very specific framework that you use to make sure that everybody's protected and that you're looking for looking toward the next generation so tell us about your you I think you call it your legacy shield framework what is that all about think about insurance as that armor right you put on your armor to go to war well insurance is kind of that armor over that family and it's it's kind of a four-step type of a process you know it starts with discovery we sit down we get into depth it could be you know anywhere from 30 minutes to five hours depending on how complex and that's we're talking the first conversations of deep dive you know information gathering we want to know all the nuances because you know what inside family wealth nobody ever argues over money you know that's you know so it's gonna be a very personal conversation we're gonna get into it you know there may be tears there may be laughter but you know we're gonna get into it after we do the data gathering we go back and we sit down amongst our partners inside and our planners and we design and there's gonna be many iterations very rarely does the first iteration of the design that we come back with end up being the one we use and the more affluent and the more complex the family is the longer these plans go on we're in middle of one right now in a PPL I transaction for a billionaire family out of South America who spends their time in the most favorite tax jurisdiction of California not really sure why because they could be anywhere on the planet but they love California this conversation that we've been going on and we just met with their family office again this morning has been going on for 13 months I promise you no matter what in 13 months something has changed so our design is gonna be back and forth until everybody is comfortable with the ultimate design once we get that done then we get to the deployment stage and that's where all the professionals get together how are we gonna implement this design who needs to do what drafting trusts opening LLC's do we need trustees and other jurisdictions how's the underwriting gonna look how's the funding gonna look and then once we get past the deployment we get to what I like to call the defense stage and I think the defense stage is just as important as the design stage because in the defense stage that's where you constantly are stress testing because as we said things change over time and you need to make sure that this integrated fortress of protection is still as relevant today and as we said with the buy sell agreement if things change there they really change inside of the family and those things have to be revisited often so that's kind of what our framework looks like and how we go about planning from inception to rollout so I want to end with something fun Adam you mentioned earlier had how celebrities can insure body parts and certain other perhaps unusual things to Lloyd's of London and other carriers so what's the most unusual thing that you have come across that was insured and then tell us what's the biggest blind spot because you do work with these championship level athletes entertainers what's the biggest blind spot for them so yeah so weird things I mean weird for you and me but for the person it's super normal right I were we're insuring hands right now on a Grammy Award winning pianist insuring your hands super but to them that's their whole livelihood you know it's hard to play the piano without fingers you know so that's where we're at we've insured athletes for soccer players for their legs you know tennis players for their arms you know these are the things are super relevant all that really is is customized disability for a specific thing but yeah that's you know we get into that now athletes historically go broke five years after retirement when I got into total planning I was taught early on that live below your means while you work so you can live above your means in retirement the problem is is people don't save properly and that only gets exacerbated in the athlete and entertainer market because so often these individuals don't come from affluent communities and don't get the education early on that nothing is forever so they go from one day to the next having all of this abundance in front of them and they can't even comprehend that it may be over tomorrow because these guys are young you know I'm in my mid 40s now but I still think of myself as in my you know early 20s you know in my early 20s you were unstoppable you never thought about consequences of things like that these individuals they don't think that it's ever going to end for them and some of the ones who do retire early when they get to a point where they put away enough money and they don't need to kind of quote-unquote abuse their bodies anymore but we try to work with them early on to start shielding dollars on a creditor protected tax favorable basis and look at what kind of dollars they need to live on and then kind of work backwards with their wealth managers and their attorneys to kind of build a plan together that if something were to happen to them a majority of what they were living on while they were working is there yeah I'm so glad you mentioned it's so prevalent in especially in the sports industry with these young athletes that make amounts of money that they could have never even contemplated don't know what to do with it and they don't have good advisors so they're not out looking for advisors so I'm glad that we're at least putting this out there on the podcast for our audience and listeners to share with some of these athletes because they need more advisors like you who really can help them because the majority of them will never go professional and if they do you could have an injury at any moment that completely ends your professional career and then make sure that those advisors are independent all too often in that space you see their agent and maybe their wealth manager more interested in protecting each other's access to that client than actually protecting the client and that's where these individuals that's where you see if you pick up any one of these financial magazines there's a section like in the law journals of all the people who get nailed for doing bad things and so often you see it's a wealth manager or an agent taking money from these individuals because they they're out there doing their job they're not paying attention or they hired their buddy what do you expect to happen all right speaking of hiring their buddies how can people connect with you Adam Sandeshu if they want to pick your brain if they're an advisor we have a lot of advisors out there who listen to the show they're an advisor they have high net worth folks and they heard something today that was new information for them and they want to connect with you and see if you can help their client how can they get ahold of you best way to get a hold of me you can email me at a DS that's Apple dog Sam at Jones Lowry comm j-o-n-e-s l-o-w-r-y.com or my mobile at 305-608-5008 super happy to have a conversation always and make sure that all your protection is buttoned up all right thank you Adam for that we appreciate you we appreciate all the information you shared with us today advanced wealth strategies for those of you who are working with high net worth and ultra high net worth families thank you for joining us it was a pleasure having you here today alrighty folks that'll do it for this edition of the inside BS show my name is Dave Lorenzo I'm the godfather of growth and she is and we'll see you right back here again tomorrow for another edition of our show thanks for joining us until then here's hoping you make a great living and live a great life