Do you have a hard time attracting top talent? Well, today we're going to share the secrets to attracting top talent. And we're also going to give you a little insight into networking success that you may not have heard before. That's right.

We've got two great topics for you today on this edition of the Inside VS Show. Hey, now it's Dave Lorenzo. I'm the Godfather of Growth.

And today we're talking to Kathy Dawson. She's an expert on attracting top talent. She's also a networking superstar, and she's coming to us live from California today.

Good afternoon, Kathy. How are you? Hey, Dave, I'm outstanding. How are you? How's it in Florida right now? Fantastic.

It is, it is warm. It's not a hundred percent humidity yet. It's only about 80% humidity.

We're still two weeks away from massive humidity. So we're, we're enjoying the last couple of weeks of the beautiful winter and spring season. So Kathy, you are probably the best person to talk to about the number one issue that family businesses, the number one issue that entrepreneurs, the number one issue that big companies are facing today, and that is attracting and retaining top talent.

And you're the best person because you do this for people all over the United States. I want to talk to you today about where we can find the best talent, what we have to do to attract the best talent and how we can retain top talent over, you know, for the longterm. But before we get into that, I think what people really need to hear about is your entrepreneurial journey, because your career is really similar to mine.

You are a highly successful corporate executive. And then almost exactly at the same time I did, you struck out on your own. So tell folks how your career started, what you were doing and how you became an entrepreneur.

That's a great question because I always feel like being a recruiter, that's how everything gets started, right? You lay this foundation and every single experience you have, you just get better and better and better. And in fact, that's what happened to you and me, it seems like. So how did I get started? I was a Navy brat, middle child, always wanting to do something to make my dad proud, relocated to Southern California, couldn't get a job in a time of transfer because there was a strike and I worked for the telephone company.

So, oh gosh, what I have to do get a real job. And I got it in recruiting in Southern California. It was a small firm in Newport Beach.

It was amazing. And it taught me everything about really being a talent gatherer of people and being able to take all those people I'd known for so many years in my life and help them find great careers. But most importantly, help my company be successful and my clients be successful so that they could hire the right people at the right time and supersede any of their competitors.

And that's really what we are, talent brokers at Dawson and Dawson. But it wasn't always that way. In the beginning it was, give me a job.

I'll fill anything, you know? And so that's what we did. And so you were working for somebody else. How did you, how did you end up going out on your own? And what was that, what was that feeling when you went? Cause you went out on your own at a really tough time to start a business.

I did. I did. You know what time it was.

It was the worst time. So yes, the reason why I did that was because I had worked for 25 years for the company that I was at for 15 years. First we got acquired.

I became a regional vice president, had a great run there. Uh, but I realized I was traveling 95% of the time and I thought, you know what? I love my family. I love where I live.

I'm in California. Why am I not living there? So I decided I needed to make a change and the company I was with was great about that. They understood what I wanted to do and they made it really easy for me to take a move out of that company and into my own thing, which was great.

So that's what I did. I started that my own firm and it was a little teeny office in an executive suite. And I said, okay, let's do this.

Uh, why did I do it though? It was all the traveling. It was also frustration within corporate America and not being able to be agile. And also the amount of money I was making for my company, it was a lot of money and I was making a little bit of that.

So I thought, gosh, it didn't seem quite fair to shore up exactly what was happening there. I had great mentors, great people. I became a great mentor because of those mentors I had and I've just been passing it on ever since.

So fast forward to 2008, we opened up our Dawson and Dawson. My husband was the one who gave me my business license and said, you need to do this, Kathy Dawson. And I was like, really, what do we, do we have the money? I don't even know how to do this, you know, and that partnership that I have with him is so amazing.

He's our CFO today. So we got our business license and it was marching orders March 17th in 2008, which is why we just celebrated our 17 year anniversary on March 17th. And I think you've got an invite Dave to come out to California to do a quite the lovely St. Patrick's day party.

It's like a big Irish wedding. We had all our clients there. We had about 200 people.

It was amazing. So so we're really proud of where we've come in those, those years. Thank you.

Congratulations. Thank you for the invitation. I wish I could have made it a congratulations to you on the, on the 17 years of success.

So I heard a rumor that your husband is your secret weapon. Is that true? It is true. He's amazing.

And he does, what is, what does he do? What does he do? Like you told me a story and the rumor came from you. You told me a story like when you, when you have a hard time getting a candidate, like he's your secret weapon. How does that work? Absolutely.

So we have a great team of recruiters. We have 17 full-time recruiters. They do amazing work all over the nation.

But my husband is the one, he gets all the orders that are kind of, we're not so sure if we can fill them or not. And I would say 98% of the time that guy fills every job that he gets. And the staff is like, how did he do it? How did he do it? Oh my gosh.

I can't believe he filled that job. I, you know, they dug and dug and dug and never found him. And here's my husband, the CFO, Naval Academy graduate, by the way, really good digger and searcher, but you know, it's certainly something I didn't think a skill level he had.

Well, he, if Naval Academy graduate, he won't quit. He's going to keep going until he finds a person. And this is, this is my number one question.

This is the thing. I, I admire what you do so much because I only have to sell to a client, right? I only, I only have to go out and get a client. You have to not only go out and get a client, but then you got to find somebody else and sell them on going to work with the client.

Like that's, you got to pull off a magic trick every single time. Talk about that dynamic, how you have to sell on both sides. It's so difficult when you get into this industry and you realize that you're like, wait, I've got double job here.

How did that happen? But it's actually for all the right reasons. Because when you meet candidates, you, if you're a good recruiter, you're compassionate about where they want to go and what they want to do. And if they're on a one to 10 and eight to a 10, you can usually find them really meaningful work.

So what you end up doing is you end up really being excited about helping them get to the next level. So you get excited about interviewing them. With the clients looking for people that they can't find, meaning employers, that's a little hard too, because they think they know what they're looking for.

And then you've got to really show them that that may or may not be the right thing for today's marketplace. So you're right. We do both, you know, and then we close both, right? Because if the client doesn't want the candidate and the candidate doesn't want the client and, but yet there's reason why we sent them there, there must be something there that people are not paying attention to.

And that's where we come in. Like we're experts. We can take a look at somebody and usually within seven seconds, I can tell if someone's going to be placeable or not.

I can also tell if they're going to be easy to work with, if they're going to be helpful, if they're going to be a dynamic individual in the right way for every company, because as you know, Dave, companies that we work with are so different. They're like families. Think about all the families you have that you know about.

Think about your own family. Think about all those people that you're thinking, Oh my God, are they really in my family? But you love them nonetheless, and you want to help them nonetheless. And that's the way our clients are to ask clients and candidates.

All right. So let's talk about 2008. So I remember I started my business in 2008, probably right around the same time.

It was the beginning of March. And I remember thinking to myself, okay, well if the banks are still around in the fall, I will be able to get the money that we put in there out. I don't know any, I don't like, all I can do is go out and talk to people.

So I was going, I just started going to a bunch of networking events. When you started your business, was there, did you, did you have a hard time finding people who are hiring? I mean, I would imagine there were plenty of candidates. I don't know how you found good candidates because there were so many, but there were probably plenty of candidates.

Was it hard to find clients who needed candidates? You bet. Well, this refresher based memory, 2008 was the great recession. Let's be serious here.

There was nothing going on. That stock market was down by 50% and it didn't get any better until 2009. So we had to wait a whole year.

So when that happened, I had lots of jobs, but then I had none. I had five jobs. That's the only thing that took me through was the five jobs, right? So, and I went out on my own on top of all that.

So it's like, wait a minute, what's happening here? I picked the bad timing here. But actually it was the perfect timing. And we were written up in the LA Times because we started a business in this time and it was a great article and it really gave us, gave us a lot of confidence in the marketplace for companies to use us.

Because what people did realize back then was that they needed to hire someone who was smart and agile and could get it done for them and who knew and appreciated their company culture. So we went on a very serious marketing campaign and we only went after specific clients. Whereas in our normal business model, we'll have different segments, you know, probably about eight to 10 and we'll manage those segments as we go.

Well, this was one segment only, all hands on deck and away we go. And it did work. So that was the good news.

We had a couple of really good clients that wrote, rewrote the wave with and then new clients that were sort of the unexpected entrepreneurs, you know, sort of, Oh my gosh, this is happening now. I can't go back to a company. There's no company left.

What am I going to do? I got to support my family. I have to make sure that they're taken care of. And you know, like cats are whales, ways land on our feet, right? And so these people did that and all of a sudden they found these amazing opportunities and they needed help, but they needed good help.

They didn't need just anybody. They needed someone who can really be compassionate about their product, their vision, and then take the company to the next level. Cause as you know, most entrepreneurs are not the best at running companies.

They're good at getting the idea. They're good at getting the funding for it, but they're not so good at getting the people or managing the people. Why? It's not their thing.

I mean, we all have our things. No, I couldn't agree. I couldn't agree with you more.

I, so after what, seven, 16 years of being on my own, I decided to go into business with a partner and I've never been happier because she handles all the stuff that I'm not good at. She does all the day to day. I do the big picture.

I do the strategy. I do a lot of sales and she handles the day to day. She handles the operations.

She handles everything that goes on with our people. And then it makes me happy and it makes her even happier to do that stuff. Kathy, let's talk about the, you mentioned that you picked a specific niche.

What, what niche market, what industry did you pick and how did you decide on the industry during those difficult times? Well, it wasn't an industry so much as it was a position. So that's a great question. And it was HR managers, HR VPs.

And the reason why is because they needed the help. They needed to get somebody to get those people back up. You know, they were very depressed.

You know, people were spiring out, you know, people were leaving at state California, like crazy. You were loving it because they're all coming to California, Florida. Not so much.

But anyway, the point is, is that it kind of shifted, right? People are coming and going and going all different places. So the main thing for the way that we focused was to get to the people who had the most control. The CFO did, but he would he or she was not reachable during that time because everybody wanted them.

They were trying to get their money. They were trying to get their contracts on everybody. They were trying to find money.

Yeah. They weren't going to be taking my phone call, but the HR people were mostly because they thought they may be laid off also. And so they knew if they connected with us, that we would keep them in mind and we would keep them on the right trajectory for their career because our company really takes a person and helps them at multiple companies.

If they can't see the growth in one, and it takes those companies that we work with and helps them grow based on talent they can't find on their own. So it's sort of a puzzle, right? And it just kind of comes together when it's done right. That's so smart.

You know, going to the leadership, especially in HR because they're going to get played that they're there. If they're not going to be at the company where you call them, eventually they're going to be at another company. And if you offer to help them or you put them in that spot, who are they going to call when they have a hard search? They're going to call you.

Yeah, that's a hundred percent. That's great. So you focus on HR folks that works and it takes off.

And then what, how does it snowball? What is the, what is the next thing? What's the next wave to break in 2009, 2010? Well, we had some economic growth there, right? So it came back nine to 19, was more growth than what we had hoped for, actually, which was good. So what happened then is they got all these things coming at them, right? So now we're doing manufacturing via the world. Now we're doing all these things that are different.

You know, they're online, all of the internet and all of the, uh, IT stuff is all coming to us real people that can use it now, like chat GPT wasn't happened then yet, but it was sort of that beginning phase, right? I can remember being on my computer in my bonus room, my house going, what's this thing going to turn into? I have no idea. And this was like 30 years ago when nobody had computers and I had one. I'm like, Oh my God, this is great.

Uh, so, um, so the, the way that it really worked was there was so much coming in at them. They ended up being overwhelmed. And so we could tell that because we've interviewed people that had interviewed at one of the big companies, right? And they would say, you know, we got, I got shuffled around, nobody cared.

So I would reach out to them and say, Hey, listen, I understand from a candidate that you had an interview with that they had less than a desirable experience. It feels to me like maybe you're missing something I can help you with because we do this for a living and we're happy to share it with you for free. And that is exactly what we said and what we did.

And they were very interested in finding out what it was. And then once you offer something for nothing, they really feel like, okay, wait a minute. This is not just a salesperson.

This is not someone just telling me that they're great or that they can quote unquote do something. They're actually putting themselves out first and giving first. And that's about the networking.

We're going to talk later. You give first and then, you know, you see what happens. But the same thing happened with these clients.

And when they realized we were doing that and they realized we had a team of people that were so strong, like I counted it up the other day, how many had 285 years of experience on my team? Oh my God, we sound old. Uh, but the reality is we have those years of experience that help us educate our clients and they're the candidates are looking for jobs and the clients that are paying the fees and hiring both of them alike. Because if either one has an in proper or unequal expectation level, it's not going to work.

And the best candidate in the entire world for a job can show up in front of somebody. And if you don't interview that person, right, they're not going to come to work for you no matter what you pay them. Yeah.

All right. So let's talk a little bit about the Dawson and Dawson difference. What is your competitive advantage? How do you, when you're talking to someone who's got a really tough search, how do you get them to give you that tough search? Because you have all the confidence in the world.

Like I'm talking to you now, I feel better about myself just talking to you. So you have all the confidence in the world. How do you give them the confidence that you can handle this tough search? Do you know, it's so funny that you say that because, not funny, it's just really interesting because you're absolutely right.

If I could give everybody listening something, I would give them confidence. 100%. That's what I would give them.

Because if you have confidence, you can do anything you want in the world. I have two grandkids now. I'm just delighted by that, of course.

And you see those little ones, two and a half and three months old. The way they see the world really helps me see the world. And I think that's how my clients need to see the world through me, right? I'm their little kid.

I'm their little grandkid. And I want them to see the world as it is because it is, you just pluck the things off the tree that you want. It's there for you, but you have to have confidence to get it.

So why do we do better in our opinion than anybody else? Well, it's our Dawson difference, as you said. So we have three principles. We have our process, our people, and our principles.

So those are the three things. What do we do with that? Well, we basically take our principles, which is honest, ethical, hardworking. You don't get a lie from us.

We tell you the truth, good, bad, or indifferent. And it's good. It's that way.

I want it that way in my life too. So we're going to give you that. And then the process is the same every single time, which helps kind of like McDonald's.

Not my kind of meal, but I love the process, right? You can go to McDonald's in Japan and it could be the exact same experience that you have here. So why is that? Well, it's the same thing that Dawson and Dawson has. It's that process.

So we do everything exactly the way it should be done in our opinion. And we've researched it. Like I said, we have 285 years experience, so we know what we're doing.

And then our people. So I am the people person, right? If I can't hire good people, what is my problem, right? And you know, they always say the cobbler shoes, right? You don't make your kid's shoes as good if you're the cobbler. Well, that was me in the beginning and I hired a coach and I did all this stuff.

And so it's been a real wonderful process for me to be able to help our team grow. And, um, and we've done that. It's been exciting.

17 full-time people, amazing staff experience and they're nationwide, so they can live and work a hundred percent remotely wherever they want. As long as they want to work the hours and be a recruiter, they've got an amazing job. I always wanted that job when I was raising my kids.

I was like, gosh, why do I have to go in every day? You know, I have all these things I have to do, but now they can, the world is in our oyster. We can do whatever we want. As long as you have someone like me who has a process, who's got a system, and that if you work at it'll work and you're normally really hardworking and dedicated, then it's, it's a win-win.

So there's a huge lesson here for everybody who's listening and watching when all the world is forcing people to go back to offices. The people who can attract the best talent for you are having their people work from wherever the hell they want. And why are they doing this? Because it's a huge advantage.

They can get the best people because they're letting them work from wherever they want. Kathy, I, you know, this is not something I plan to talk about, but we need to talk about it. Why don't people understand this? Like I, like we don't, we don't have, I don't have an office.

Like people can work with us. They can work from literally from wherever they want. I got people now, I got one guy in India who works for us full time.

I got one person in the Philippines who works for us full time. They can be wherever they want. I don't understand why big companies can't, can't get this.

If you run a brick and mortar business, I get it. You, you need to have your people in front of the customer. I have no problem with that.

But if you're, if you're a law firm, if you're an accounting firm, if you're a consulting firm, if you're a technology for technology of all things firm, you don't, you don't need to have your people in your face, give them some outcomes, hold them accountable for the outcomes, give them a process. And you know, you can see them every day. If you want like this, you don't have to be in front of them.

Why don't people get that? Kathy, when you talk to employers, when they say that people have to come in the office, what's the reason they give? Well, they don't tell the truth. First of all, they give you a reason that sound makes them look good. So let's be clear about that because there is no logical reason for someone to demand an executive or a administrative worker, accounting, finance, IT, or whatever it, there's no reason they should be in the office unless you have this unwavering fear in your heart, which is what happens with most of these people who own these companies because they're more mature and they feel like if you can't see it, it's not real.

They still are hanging on to that. Now, I will tell you that as they're aging out, the bigger companies are excited about it because they're saying to me confidentially, I can't wait till John is gone or Sarah's gone because once he or she's gone, that means we can make the rules and we can do this at a more, you know, 2025, you know, level. So, but, but it's, so it's insecurity going back to confidence.

It's the insecurity of the leader. It's going back to, you know, the fact that they've had somebody burn them in the past. But I always use this analogy.

You get, you've been married before, haven't you? Are you still the same person? You know, there's a pretty good chance one out of seven, you're not with the same person. I happen to be, which is great, but that doesn't mean that I'm any better than anybody else. I just got lucky actually.

And so this thing is you have to know that people will not continue to come into work for you and your organization if you don't trust them and give them flexibility. So what we did when we, when COVID started, it is immediately went home. Everybody had to go home, right? So we learned how to adjust our business model to be a more remote.

Of course, zoom and teams, all that's been terrific. But we had, what was that way back when? I forget what it was called, but it was international and we could do, Oh, like Skype. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. So, um, so anyway, there's always a way to make it work.

If you want to make it work, like let's face it. If you someone was dying in another country and they had needed to do work, you'd let them do it. You know, you would do that.

So with the law firms, with the CPA firms, they're a little more concerned about the whole team environment too. And we have probably 10 companies right now, Dave, that if they would allow them to even just do a hybrid, which doesn't mean all week, it just means a couple of days. They would get more qualified people to work there, but instead they're holding strong.

They're not going to hire anybody unless they will come into work and they kind of do this number to them. Right. And then what does that person think though? When they're being onboarded, they think, wow, if you don't even trust me enough to go to a doctor's appointment without me giving you a notice when I come back, what is this all about? Where am I working? What year is this? You know? And so you look bad as a leadership team in your company.

And that's not what you want to look like. I don't think now maybe you do. And if you do good for you, but you're probably not going to get the best people.

You'll get the people who are available and who do want to do that kind of work or will do it until they find something else. I call it quiet quitting because these people get the job, they stay there, they don't really work very much. And then they just wait until they get the next job and you're sitting there paying their salary.

And you know, we pay at least 40% more of their salary plus all the other things they don't, are not doing pot stirring in the company. You know, who knows? You got to get those people out higher, slow, fire, fast. Yeah.

All right, Kathy. So tell us what the, what the experience is like working with your team when you have a search. So I, let's say I have a job that I need to fill.

And do most people come to you after they try to fill the job themselves or do they, do they just come to you right away? How does that work? That's a good question because I would like to say they come right away, but they don't. You're very good. They have to rise to the, to their own level of incompetence and go, I just can't do this.

Or what they'll do is they'll hear this or see this and they'll go, you know, I've tried that job three times already. I need to call Kathy's team, you know, that's what they'll do. They'll, because they need to be referred in.

Being working with a recruiter is not for the faint of heart. If they're good recruiters, they will put you to task. They will get you to do what you need to do to make them successful.

So that is, they'll do a deep dive. We spend about one hour with every intake call with a client to make sure we leave no stone unturned. Why? Because it's fitness before in the bite, bite bites us in the back, right? We're like, no, no, no, we're not going to do that again.

So, and we, then sometimes these companies cause they're not hiring all the time. They just don't know what's out there. They don't know what they, like I'm living with a company right now that is, uh, from another, uh, another country and he's hiring a general manager kind of VP of sales here locally.

And I've placed, I've worked with him for 10 years now. And I placed a general manager before I've lost all his other staff as well. So he's trying to hire two people in one spot.

He wants a sales guy that to run the company as like a CEO. Oh wow. Yeah.

And I'm going, well, that's good in theory. However, probably not going to work because you need someone, if you want someone to do sales, to focus on that so they succeed. If you want someone to run the company, then they're going to be good with customers more than likely like you and I, we always talk to our good clients, right? But we're not going to be out there pounding the pavement, call it knocking down the doors or making sure that someone else is selling.

We're going to be making sure that our clients are happy. So, um, if you want it that way, what do you think it's going to get for you? If you are, if you do hire that way, and here's what we've learned in our experience that has made it, um, not that way. And this is what you need to think about before you make the decision.

Cause I'm not making any decisions for any of my clients. They're making their own. However, I'm going with what they say and we're moving forward.

So I want them to have good, um, counsel, right? So maybe a labor and employment attorney, if they've had a problem with a situation in the past. Okay. Excellent.

And how do you, how do clients from overseas find you? It's the mergers and acquisitions teams I work with. And they're, they do it all over the world. And so then they reach out to me and connect me.

And once you do one of those, then they always want to use you because they know that you're honest and you're going to find the stuff and they can count on you. Yeah. They're, they know, they know you're going to get it done for them because they just bought them.

Right. And they're in there and they've got to make sure this thing takes off. If they put all that money in that company and it doesn't work, it's a problem.

Yeah. All right. Let's, let's shift gears and let's talk a little bit about the way that you develop business.

Because you and I met through a networking organization called provisors. The people who listen to the show know about provisors. I talk about it all the time.

I bring my friends on from provisors all the time. So talk about how you connect with people and what you do to connect with people. You're a, you're obviously, you're in the people business.

So you're a people person. You're great at connecting with people. You're also immersed in the community where you live and where you work.

So let's, let's start with what you do locally and then expand out from there. Okay. So in regards to networking and getting business, that's really the question here.

Um, you can never not network. Like I go to the grocery store, you know, I chat up the person, I go to the breakfast place and I'll hear someone saying, Oh, my boss just yelled at me and they, I hate my boss. And so I hear that a lot actually at bars too when I go out networking there.

But anyway, so I just have little business cards. They're, they're not nothing special. There's the normal business card.

And then I'll usually want, you know, reach out to them and say, Hey, how you doing? You know, I, I overheard you blah, blah, blah. And then I'll do that. So it's direct networking of people in the community that I live so that I can help uplift them.

We do a lot of that on Facebook and all the other, you know, um, ways that you can connect online. And that's actually been quite helpful. Uh, LinkedIn has been great for us as you can imagine.

Um, but we don't pay that exactly the real high end prices for LinkedIn where there's workarounds, things like that. So, um, if you're looking to hire on your own, you know, LinkedIn is a good place and indeed or is a good place also. Uh, but you still have to go through mass emails.

You have to see if they're qualified. You have to then make the hire on your own and then you feel your references and you have, you don't have a guarantee, you know, blah, blah, blah, all that stuff. So what ends up happening is you end up making mistakes because you're human.

I mean, like I said, we're all human and you're going to make mistakes, but you won't make a mistake when you work with us because we're going to say, Oh, have you thought about this? Well, when we did this before, this is what happened. And when you're describing the job description to us initially also, we're going to go, Hmm, it seems like you might be wanting this, but you're asking for that. Is that really what you meant to say? So we're just kind of double checking everything, you know, it's like going to school and making sure before you're returning your homework, your parents looked at it to make sure you did all right.

You know, you got that little inside scoop there. You got the parent with you, if you will. So so that's kind of how that works on working with the companies and then also the networking.

So I am a group leader like you are in provisors. So I have a group and then I love my provisors people. They're like my second family as I think you feel too.

So I'm always trying to find ways and every company I'm working with to introduce a fellow provisors member. And the reason for that is I like working with other people. I'm a big collaborator and I have a story about a situation that I worked with a company, a guy that in provisors early on, probably eight years ago now, and it was an umbrella manufacturer out of China and it was another M&A deal.

They were at going to open up another division here in the U S and they brought in eight people from provisors and I was the one who did the recruiting. So I heard the general manager and I think a couple of extra people as well. And they got insurance, they got real estate, they got, they got, I mean just everything, payroll, everything.

And it was all done as a group from provisors. So I try to do that as often as I can because again, I know I have trusted advisors with provisors that I know I can, you know, parlay into better relationships and the more the merrier is my opinion. So and then networking in general, you know, I, you can tell I'm high energy and I love people and it's a good thing I got this job, right? Because it's perfect for me.

But I started when I opened my own firm because you can imagine I worked for somebody else for 20 some years. I wasn't networking anywhere. I was a regional vice president, was traveling 95% of the time from Alaska down to San Diego, parts of Utah and Arizona and I'm very busy, $120 million region.

So I didn't network. I was too busy, right? I was like firing clients and, and hiring people and, you know, doing all that stuff at the high end. So when I opened my own, I said, okay, I got to get that, that back here because I always enjoyed people, but I never did it at the high level like this networking.

So women's business enterprise national council, it's called WeBank was the first area that I decided to get into because they're nationwide and worldwide and they're women. So I thought, okay, well, I can learn from some other women there and see what pitfalls of things they did. I won't do that, you know, that way.

And that's how it worked. So I was in WeBank for 10 years. I was on their executive committee.

I was their forum leader. It was an amazing experience. Also certified staffing professionals.

I've got that certification. Tuck University at Dartmouth, I went to, again, through all of the women's and the networking I did. UCLA, management development for entrepreneurship.

That was so much fun. And I got to speak at the end at the class, 10,000 small businesses, just really cool. And then also women's business enterprise.

So that's an executive forum and then Novo. So that's Novo National Association of Women Business Owners, Orange County, Women's Business Institute, all those things, working wardrobe, and then Provisors. So I have to say Provisors is my favorite though because of people like you, Dave.

They're just very well-meaning, helpful people. And the women's groups, they're wonderful, but they were looking for me to lead, not necessarily gain leadership there. So I had to put the other hat on when I was there, which was fine.

You know, you get joy from giving and getting, and I love to give. So that was easy for me. But when I wasn't making as much money, I had to go, okay, hmm, I need to figure out another one where there's more money there.

And Provisors is definitely one of those. And other groups that are local to you based on your industry is what I would recommend. Yeah.

And for you, because people, for a lack of a better word, people are your product. So you immersing, immersing yourself in the community is exposing you to more product for you to deliver to the people who need it the most. So you're, you know, every waking moment, you need to be high energy because every waking moment, you got to be out there talking to people.

Now, you know, we go, we go on a business trip, Nicola and I, and she gets worn out because I'm talking to everybody from like the minute I get on the plane, I'm talking to the flight attendants. We're sitting next to somebody where I'm introducing her to the person sitting next to her and the person across from me. And you know, here's, so here's the thing I'll tell you, I got a great job from sitting next to the right guy on an airplane.

So I know the value of talking to everybody. I talked to my kids get worn out when I go to the supermarket. Cause I talked to everybody in the supermarket over the weekend, I'm at a volleyball tournament.

And between games, there's a woman recording her kid and she's got this really cool app on her iPad that shows the score. And I walk over, I'm like, hi, my name is Dave. What is that app? Oh, let me show you.

And she's showing me the app. And I'm like, can I try it? She's like, yeah, sure. You can try it.

And my wife is like her head in her hands, you know, but that's like, if, if it's, if it comes naturally to you, that's great. And you know, my, my feeling is like, I, my whole mission in life is just to collect and develop relationships. And then the money comes from that.

So, you know, it's a by-product of having a great relationship with somebody. So when I, when I joined provisors, I thought to myself, all right, you know, I it was for me, it was the middle of the pandemic. And I'm like, how can I meet as many people as quickly as possible and deliver some value to them? And it's, and provisors is essentially what ended up saving my business.

So let's talk about how, because everybody here has heard, you know, me beat to death, how I leverage provisors. And I, I leverage it by the first thing I do is I look for people who I would accept as a friend first. And then I try to help them and I try and do whatever I can for them.

And then if, if work comes from it, that's great. But I know I can find work in a lot of different places. Finding friends is really hard, right? So for me, I go out looking for people who I want to have a beer with or people who I want to have dinner with.

And when I find those people, that's usually where the best introductions come from. So what's your approach? How do you make provisors work for you? I wish I could say it was the same as you. Because I like to make friends too.

I have a lot of friends and provisors. But I would say that I did more of a focus on geography and going physically and then seeing if the group was for me or not. Right.

Oh, interesting. You know, was the humor the right kind of humor? Was there any humor? Maybe there wasn't, you know? And so for me, I have five people that I get the best referrals from, right? Five. So CPA coaches, labor and employment attorneys, M&A attorneys, and then, you know, CPAs and that sort of thing.

So those are great people. But I know when I go into a room or an area where there are executives there that are there in that industry that I want to see who they are. Now some of them are not very good also, right? They're just, I call them quiet quitters.

So they're still in their jobs, but they're just there. They're networking because they have to. They're hoping they get fired on the networking job and they don't have to do it anymore, right? That's what they're hoping for.

So you have to understand when you go into an organization and you're networking that everybody's there for a different reason. And some are there like you are to save your business. Like this is a serious thing.

I got to connect with people right now and get it done. And I got to get these things, this ABC and D thing plan has got to work. And there's no taking prisoners.

It is going to work, right? So, and that's the way I do things too. So I told you when we met, I was like, we were so polite. This is crazy.

But anyway, so I would then, you know, go into that networking group and say, okay, you know, this is what I do and this is how I've helped people like you in the past. So I always would give them a story about what success was like for someone in their space or their title. And they either at that point, believe you or not because it's a little soon in the relationship to say something like that.

But I kind of feel like if they don't trust me already, then what's going to make them trust me if I tell the story or not. I mean, they're not going to trust me anyway. It's just going to take, they're going to have to listen to 10 thank yous in a meeting and then they'll believe that I'm good right at what I do.

So that's okay too. I just need to know what's my playing field, you know, what's their, what, what is their, their way coming into them. So then the other thing is following up.

So I think that a lot of people go to these meetings or go to the zooms or whatever and they don't follow up. And I've had people tell me multiple times, Oh my gosh, you're exactly what my client needs. You know, la la la la la la and you never hear from them.

So I don't even reach out to those people anymore. If they say they have a client that they want to refer me to, I say, well, that's great, you know, because I don't really want to bother you. If that's what happens, then you can reach out to me.

In the meantime, we'll connect on LinkedIn. And if I can help you, I will. And if you can help me, then that'd be great too.

So I leave it very surfacy with those people because I can sense that it's not quite right. Now, if I met you somewhere and we didn't know each other and we just met, I would a hundred percent give you my attention and my time and my referrals. Why? Because of how you come off.

You're committed. You're not going to be, this is a BS show, but you're not a BS guy, right? So it's really important because there are people who have a reputation in these networking groups of being just a lot of BS. There's not real, it's all fluff.

There's no, no power there. And I would rather be the power person with no fluff versus the no fluff person with no power. A hundred percent.

Oh my gosh. So that's, that's so true. You want to be the person who everybody points to and says, there's the person who gets it done.

Like that's, you want to be, that's the reputation you want. Now, if you also have a bit of a personality, that's just a bonus, but you want to be known as the person who gets it done for sure. Yeah, for sure.

And meaningful. So meaningful, like with HR people there, they get beat up a lot. So, um, I do things for them that nobody else does.

Like I give them fish. They have to feed every day. Why? Because it makes them realize that there's something other than those people pounding on them all day long and the life and life is what they should be living.

And maybe they should change their jobs if they're that unhappy, right? If they get beat up all day, there's no reason for anybody to be unhappy anymore in their jobs. There is no reason. And I mentioned to you, I wrote that book about helping people find their own jobs.

I want to, I want to talk about that. Yeah. The new, new world of work, right? So what's the, what's the, give me the, give me the inside BS about the new, new world of work, Kathy.

Go ahead. Well, let's just say when you read it, you will know exactly how to make sure you keep and or find and keep the job of your dreams. If you choose to do the things you need to do.

So we know that 80% of the people are not going to do what they say they're going to do. 20% will. And some of those 20% will be halfway.

There's only 10% that are like you and me. They're going to get it done. They're going to get done.

Or like me, I'm like, what do I have to do? What do I have to do for this meeting? Yeah. How quick, how quick can I get it done? Yeah, sure. So, um, so that's the thing.

When we're looking at people who are trying to do some things that are different, we have to show them the way. Yeah. Okay.

So we're talking about how, like the philosophy of going all in the philosophy of going in a hundred percent. It's obvious that you do that at work. I mean, you've got the career track record to back it up, but also you can tell your energy just comes through the microphone.

You can, you can feel that you're into what you're doing and that you want to give it a hundred percent. Now, when you're, when you're going into a networking environment, so you do in California, for those of you who are listening in your provisors members, if you don't know, because are the way we do it here in South Florida, particularly in my group, we do a lot on zoom. We do some in-person stuff.

I have, I host an in-person lunch every month and up in the Northern part of our area, I host an in-person breakfast every month, but we do a lot on zoom in California. It's a lot in person, right? So when you show up at a networking event, particularly if it's like seven o'clock in the morning, are you like, Hey, it's Kathy and I'm here to fill your job. What do you got for me today? Are you like a ball? Cause that's cause I do that.

No, no, I do that. And people are like, Hey, listen, I gotta have some coffee. You can't be all up in my grill because I haven't had three cups of coffee yet.

That's funny. It's interesting because people say, how much coffee have you had? And when they hear the answer, they can't believe it. I don't drink coffee.

I was, I was going to bet. I was going to bet on that. So do you, what's your, what's your approach? So you, you like your, when you, I would imagine when you lead the meeting, you get everybody excited and that's your job.

But when you're going to another meeting and you walk in the room, what's your approach? How do you do it? It's very quiet. I just, I, I, I look at the room, I look at the audience, right? Cause they always say, look at the audience and then find someone who's like minded. So it doesn't matter who they are, but maybe I recognize somebody or maybe I'll say, Oh, I think that that person does this that or the other.

And then we have a list we're given of course, which is kind of a cheat sheet to say, these are the people who may show up mostly will. And if you want to try to go with them or have a meeting with them, let us know kind of thing. So I'll look at that ahead of time, you know, and I'll write out my thank yous cause there's usually, I usually have five to eight thank yous every meeting I go to because I do a lot of business improvisers and I want them to know it, not forget me.

And so then I will reach out to the HR consultant, let's say, or the labor and attorney attorney that's there, employment attorney, and I'll say, Oh, you know, Hey John, you know, I saw you on the list. I'm really happy to meet you. I run a search and staffing firm, you know, and I would think we could work together cause he's an attorney or, you know, whatever it is.

And then they usually like that cause I'm a client right of theirs cause I do need them. I do use them. And so then that'll get their attention.

And then I'll tell them about the business I'm running. And usually businesses with provisors are smaller businesses and mine's about two and a half million. We're on, we're on our way to 10 million.

So I, but I had two and a half million. It feels like it's a huge company. It reminds me of the $120 million company I ran with the vision because of all the ways we're doing things so differently.

So that's really how I handle it. You know, get to somebody who's got something in common with you. Give them something for free.

Um, I do have a really cool one pager that I was given through one of the guys that's within my group who sent my since retired, but this one pager does it all. And so I'll tend to give them a one pager. Then I'll have like a little Chotsky, you know, uh, my briefcase or my purse.

It'll be like a shoe shine thing or, you know, a mirror or something that's really inexpensive, but it has our logo on it. There's no phone numbers or anything. It's not that.

It's just, I want to give them something and I, I want to have something to do that. And I've always been that kind of person. Like if you come to my house, you're going to get a bag.

Don't, I don't know what's going to be in it, but you're getting a bag, maybe a bottle of wine in there. You have a bottle of wine and a bag. Cause I, I, I was a big raised with a big Catholic family and we didn't have a lot of gifts.

We had to make our own. And I always loved a gift bag, you know, cause we never got that. So now I'm the gift bag girl.

Oh, that's awesome. That's fantastic. That's great.

Okay, terrific. So if you could give one piece of advice, there's somebody who's listening to this right now, who for them, this today is their 2008, right? For them, today's the day they're starting. Right? So what's the one piece of advice you would give to somebody who's brand new? They they're starting today and they're on their iPhone or their Android and they were on Spotify and they're searching, you know, show about starting a business.

And they stumble upon you and me and here we are. They've listened because it was so entertaining and we get to the end. What's the one piece of advice you would give that person who's starting today? I would say focus, focus, focus.

So know what you want to do. So if you're in, let's say marketing because everybody's in marketing, it feels like, so you're in marketing, but you want to be unique. How are you going to be unique? Well, who was your audience you're going after? Why are you going after them? And remember that you want to go after the most money.

I didn't do that in the beginning. I did. I went after just helping everybody and it took me two years to figure out that helping everybody that had more money was more fun.

And so I want you to do that. The new person opening there, don't waste your time. Those two years that I did go ahead and go right to the person that you need to work with and then find out exactly what that revenue value is to your organization.

And I always say, you have to have a plan. You have to work the plan and then you've got to readjust the plan, realign the plan. If you don't do that, you're really going to be out of business and you should work for somebody else and just do a piece of it.

You know, like Dave said, he's got his friend, what's her name again? Thank you. Nicola, Nicola. She does all the stuff that he doesn't want to do, which is perfect.

No, for sure. For sure. I should say partner, not friend.

I apologize. No, no, no. That's great.

She's my friend too. She's a, she's a very good friend. Um, here's, I think that is probably the best advice and I'll tell you what, that is, that is so spot on.

We, that's the philosophy we have. And here's what happens. So people go out on their own and I just had this conversation with a client in a meeting we had on Friday.

People go out on their own and they think, okay, now I'm out on my, I was, I was with X, Y, Z company on Friday. Today's Monday and I'm out on my own. I was charging $30,000 on Friday, but now I can only charge five because I'm out on my own.

Here's why that's flawed thinking. You're the same person. You're delivering the same value, right? And here's what will happen.

If you go out and you say, now in my own business, I need to start with businesses that are doing 5 million or more in annual revenue. And I'm going to charge $30,000 for my services. Guess what's going to happen.

You're going to tell everybody that and the people who are not doing 5 million are going to say, well, I'm only doing a million and a half. I mean, would you, I would pay you 30,000. Would you work with me? And you're going to say, sure, absolutely.

But here's the thing when you position yourself that way, when you say, you know, we work with businesses that are more, more mature and that are doing five to a hundred million in annual revenue. That's our target audience. And here's the reason why we have to do all of this stuff and they have to have resources in order to be successful.

Other companies that are not doing that, but have those resources, maybe they have private equity funding and they want to get to 5 million quickly are going to come to you and they're going to tell you that. And you're still going to be able to attract them. And what you're not going to do is you're not going to attract all the other people who are going to say, well, you know, would you do it for 15? Those people are going to fall by the wayside because you have your eyes on the price.

I think that's great advice because I know I've made the mistake of going, Oh, I'm on my own. Now I got to charge a little less bad move. Always go for the highest end of the, the higher end of the market.

People will find you and they'll find ways to work with you at the lower end for sure. That is great advice. Excellent.

All right. So the new new world of work, where can people get it? It is actually, it was published on March 17th and it's on Amazon. Perfect.

Okay. So it's available on Amazon. We're going to put a link in the show notes, the new new world of work by Kathy Dawson.

Who's your coauthor, Kathy? What's her name? Patty D Dominic and Kathy Dawson. You can find it on Amazon. We're putting a link in the show notes.

Look, if you liked all the energy that Kathy has just to have it in a book, put it by your bedside and you'll just read three or four pages. When you wake up in the morning, you'll be fired up. You won't need coffee.

You'll be ready to go. All right, Kathy. It was such a pleasure to speak with you.

Give us your phone number. How can people get in touch with you? I'm at 9 4 9 3 0 6 2 9 0 9. That's my cell number and you have it. So that's good.

Um, and I have an email Kathy dot Dawson at Dawson, Dawson Inc.com. And you can Google Dawson and Dawson and you can find me all over the place. All right. So we're going to put the phone number, the email, we're putting the website and we're going to put the link for the book down in the show notes so people can get it.

Kathy, thank you so much for joining us. It was an absolute pleasure having you today. The same here, Dave.

I adored it. Let's do this again. Every day for the rest of our lives.

All right, folks, that'll do it for this edition of the inside BS show. I am Dave Lorenzo, the godfather of growth. And apparently you can find Kathy and me back here again tomorrow.

Until then, here's hoping you make a great living and live a great life.