Family businesses are different. They're different because not only do you own them with your parents or your siblings or your cousins, they also have a bit of complexity to the organization and structure. If you're working with a family business or you're in a family business, you can't afford to miss this edition of the Inside BS Show.

Hey now, I'm Dave Lorenzo, and today we're talking to Harry Sandrowski for another Mentor Moment. And today, Harry's going to give us some insight into family-owned businesses and how they're different from businesses that are owned by partners or businesses that are owned by multiple people or entities. And he's going to share with us some of the ways that these businesses need to prepare themselves for succession planning and exit strategy.

Hey now, Harry, how are you doing today? I'm doing great. Sun's shining. It's a beautiful day.

Fantastic. So, Harry, you and I spend a lot of time talking about family offices. And one of the things that leads to family offices or one of the ways that family offices come into being is when businesses are owned by people who are part of the same family, we obviously call them family-owned businesses, and if they pass from generation to generation or if there's a liquidity event, that money needs to be invested or the entity needs to be held generally by something.

And that's one of the ways family offices come into being. Let's talk a little bit about the definition of family-owned business. Is it really, Harry, just as simple as a business that's owned by people who are related? Yes, that would be it.

And remember that you could have two families that are related, a brother and a sister, and their family involved in the business. That'd be very common. So, it's just not one family only.

But the idea here is that everyone's in the rowboat trying to row the same way for the better of the family, both economically and for the family values. Okay. So, what are some of the advantages to keeping it in the family, so to speak? I think the advantages are really several.

One is going to be is that there tend to be long-term thinkers. They're going to be thinking that we're going to hold on to this and we want to build it the right way because everyone's economics are dependent on it, especially if you have two sets of families that are related. That makes it even broader.

And at the same time, you're trying to teach that second generation how to conduct yourself in that business and how to run the business. And then also, learn from the mistakes. You're going to scrape your knees and your elbows.

Everything's not perfect. But I think that's one of the common challenges. And one of the common challenges, too, is separating out when you go home family business from the family, what's going on.

So, that's a very difficult thing to balance. Harry, talk a little bit about the dynamic that you've seen. I mean, you've worked with dozens, if not hundreds, of family businesses over the years.

What are some of the most common dynamics you've seen take place? Is it common to have a patriarch, say, like the mother and the father, and then the kids who are involved in the operation? Is it common for there to be nieces and nephews when brothers are involved? What are some of the dynamics that you've seen in family-owned businesses? So, you're going to have a litany. In some cases, it's just one of the two parents, either the patriarch or matriarch, who really heads it up. Sometimes they founded the business together.

That tends to be more challenging on one end, but I think also rewarding on the other because they're both working towards the goal. So, one is not below the other in the business from a hierarchy standpoint. So, that's very helpful.

But from a dynamic standpoint, it's from the children who maybe are no longer children. They're out of college or they've gone to work for someone else. It's always where do you separate out the roles of being the parents or the uncle and aunt that are also associated with the business, with that individual and allowing them to grow and not bringing up what did they do when they were 12 years old, right? So, there's always that dynamic.

And then the dynamic of money coming in because then the question is if somebody – if the younger generation wants to have a bigger house than mom and dad had or their uncles have and things of this nature, that always creates an interesting dynamic in the family about spending patterns. Do you find that when the kids go into business following in the parents' footsteps that – it could go either way. It could be the kids want to make the parents proud and they want to take the business to the next level or the kids feel like they can never live up to the parents' expectations.

Is it from – as a third party, is it your experience that there's all kinds of psychological complications involved in that? Because I can imagine just years of therapy if that were me on either side. There's years of therapy on either side, that's for sure. But the first item comes down to a lot is I don't want to work as hard as my parents.

I saw you working 18, 20 hours a day, seven days a week. I understand the business. I understand the benefits our families receive from that, but I don't want to do that.

So, you will get that aspect and it won't be necessary from all the children, but that is more of a common theme today that we have seen time and time again. On the other hand, we do see more rarely, but we do see where the children get involved in the business and they're all in. I mean from start to finish because they see this as a way for them to have a great future.

And sometimes what happens in a business when you have more than a couple siblings, what might happen is that business, you and I have talked about this, is many businesses have different revenue channels. And so sometimes what happens is you could actually, if you plan things, and let's assume one sibling wants to take the business one way and another one wants to go another way in another direction. The nice thing in a family business is we can actually do what we would call a spin-off of those two.

So, both of those could run their businesses separately, and then the patriarch and matriarch could still have the major owners in both. So, there's a lot of ways to accomplish when there's maybe a little bit of discord or a little bit of feeling I want to go in one direction or another, but there's a lot of neat ways really to do that. Unfortunately, a lot of advisors don't think about it that way.

They think it's all in one basket. You need to dissect it and really find out what's going on. So, in many cases what we've done in those situations is conduct interviews that are confidential interviews to find out what people really want, because sometimes how they act in a meeting in front of the family is not exactly what they want because they don't want to say it in a way that might hurt somebody's feelings.

But you really need to sit down and find out what's going on there, because if you can get that key, then you have a higher degree, you have a higher likelihood of being successful in addressing the family issues or preventing issues from getting to another level. And that brings me to my next question, and that's all about succession planning. So, when you're succession planning, when you're talking to the person who's the head of the family business today about who the next in line is going to be and who are going to head up the business units, do you often find that the judgment of the family member who's the CEO can be influenced by the personal relationship they have? So they feel like the number one sibling should be the first person to take over the company even though the number three sibling may be more mentally equipped and have business experience or something along those lines? Does that dynamic get involved? Yeah, there's something called favoritism that can come into play.

We have a client that's been with us now for 25 years, and he came to us. His family was in the real estate and construction business. He was the oldest son, and he had two sisters.

One was in the business, one was not. And he comes from a certain ethnic background that I won't mention here, but very strong that the son is supposed to take over the business. And when his dad made the decision to put his younger sister in charge of the business, it blew up the family.

Oh, wow. It blew it up. That's crazy.

Because he consulted in his community that his dad would do that to him. So those type of things can happen. But the personal side is always going to be influential depending on how strong the patriarch or matriarch are.

They have to make that decision and understand it could actually blow up your family. So you've got to think through those parts. That could have been easily handled by having them both co-head part of the business because they were in construction and real estate separately.

It could have been, okay, you get in charge of construction, and you get in charge of the other. You guys have to work together, work it out. It just wasn't handled in a way that the longevity of the business could have been done a lot better.

So, Harry, in a family business, in your opinion, what's the best way to prepare that next generation for taking the reins? Is it for them to step out of the business for a couple of years and maybe go work somewhere else, get some broader experience? Or is it to do every job in the organization, start from the ground up for a couple of years? What have you seen work really well? So most of the businesses I see, I'll call them the children initially because they're not children later on, they're adults, have been involved in one part of the business, whether it's just going there with mom and dad or whatever the case may be, but understanding. I mean, we had one group, the guy just wanted to go with his dad to go through his briefcase and understand what's going on. The key thing here is that I believe what makes it really work is whatever education, there should be like an educational goal first, whether it's a bachelor's degree, a master's degree, whatever the case may be, getting a base level of education and then going to work for someone else for four or five years and then coming back into the business because then you understand the lines of authority and that sometimes you have to do things that you don't want to do and you might have a boss you might not like, but you have to get through it.

And I think that's important about coming in the business then, to say that sometimes then when the patriarch or matriarch asks you to do something, it's done in a business setting, not a personal setting, and then you understand the impact on the business. So we have seen that formula work better over time. It's not 100% because nothing is, but I would say that one's there.

It depends on the type of business too. I think if it's like a restaurant or food purveyor or something else, I think the likelihood of the second generation participating in that is higher because they can see this on a day-to-day basis and they see what they do could have an influence on the business and it's something interesting. So it's also going to be, I think, sometimes industry-specific too, which is going to be a little bit easier.

And what you're saying makes a lot of sense to me. I saw when I was a kid my very first job, even before I was legally able to work, I was able to get a job on the weekends as a dishwasher in an Italian restaurant, and it was a family-owned Italian restaurant. And the dynamic was, okay, when you go to high school, from their kids, they had four kids, when they were in high school, all of their kids worked in the restaurant all through high school.

And the feeling of the parents was you're going to get a job and you're going to work somewhere anyway. You might as well get a job and work for us and we'll pay you exactly what the supermarket up the street would pay you. And the advantage for that place was these kids, as they grew up, would recruit all their friends to work in the restaurant as the waitstaff or the bussers.

So their kids had a good time, and then the kids in the neighborhood who were friendly with their kids all wanted to work there. And then at the beginning of the night, everyone would eat a meal together. At the end of the night, everyone finished and left at the same time.

So it was like the people in the neighborhood were all part of that family, and everybody's families would go there for special occasions. And so the theme, that family theme, I wonder, and now that I think about it, some of the other family businesses I've been involved in over the years as a professional have similar dynamics where it's kind of seamless, the family from the business, but when the kids are ready to transition into management, the good ones that I've seen, they make a choice, and the people that really get where the business goes to the next level with the second and third generation is you go out after college, get a job somewhere else, bring all that knowledge back here if you want to come back here. And oh, by the way, if you want to stay over there, that's fine too.

For some reason, they always come back, and when they come back, they've got a million ideas, and when they come back with the ideas, a lot of times that's when the matriarch or patriarch says, okay, now I feel like the business is finally ready to transition. Does that make sense? Yeah, so you said a lot there. So first of all, with having the family members in the business, even in the summertime, you have family eyes on the business on a day-to-day basis to help correct things if you see something that's wrong.

That's the nice thing about having people who have a family and financial interest in the business. That's one. Two, your example about having a meal at the beginning, what a great way to create an atmosphere that we're all working together, we eat together, and things of that nature.

I give those people a lot of credit with that. And I think that's one of the things that doesn't happen enough in business, whether it's the lunch or the dinners or getting people out in an environment that's kind of work-related but it's not, but you're trying to do something socially, and that's got to be balanced so you don't do it all the time. But I think that's very, very important.

I give your example of those families a lot of credit on that. But I really think that you have to have that balance between the work and you've got to find some way to do that, whether it's going bowling or whether it's a family dinner or whatever the case may be. But I think that's very, very important in the process.

I'll tell you an interesting anecdote along with that, too. There were people who worked in the restaurant. As their kids got older, obviously they had four kids.

The oldest two kids were in college when I was in high school with one of the younger kids. So their friends would work in the restaurant while they were in high school and everybody would go away to college. But over the summers or on breaks like holiday break, those kids who used to work in the restaurant, they knew, hey, listen, the restaurant opens at 5.30. They knew dinner was at 4.45. If they were in town, they would stop in at 4.45 and there would always be a seat at the table for them.

They wanted to know what was going on. It just was they were embedded in the community. And because of the way they handled the people that worked there, everybody, they just had the best reputation and everybody loved them.

You can't buy that kind of publicity. And the fact that it was a family-owned business was what made the fabric of that so special, so important. So let's talk about the opposite, not family businesses where they're throwing plates at each other, but when it makes good sense to bring in somebody from the outside.

So you, Harry, as an advisor, when you're sitting down with the head of a family business, when do you say to them, listen, you're thinking about moving on. You're thinking about enjoying the next 20 years of your life and stepping aside from your business. We've had some conversations.

It's probably time for you to talk to somebody about bringing in someone from the outside, whether it's an outside CFO or somebody to run the business. What are some of the signs that a family business needs to bring somebody in from the outside? I think it's both stress in the business and stress on the family. Sometimes it's going to be health concerns that come up with one family member, maybe not the patriarch or matriarch.

Those are normal times where people really start to think. And it really depends on the type of business too. Sometimes that won't necessarily be an outside person, but you could go to one of the kids who now are 30 who was working someplace else and said, I need you back.

It's interesting. I've seen companies where that type of thing has happened and when whatever pecking order, the child came back from college and working for someone else, there's some really good stories out there where they've taken the business and it just exploded in a very positive way. So that young thought process of growing up in the business can be very helpful.

And because the patriarch or matriarch created this great environment with the employees, the neighborhood, whatever the case may be. I mean, look what happened with Culver's, what that guy has done. So again, that's a culture thing and very focused on Wisconsin.

So my whole point there is there could be a lot of positive things, but normally the other part is going to be on the stress part. People want to do things, somebody gets to help. Those are the two main things that come up in the process.

Or one of the children has an unfortunate accident or something along those lines. So those are going to be life-type events that are going to cause it. Otherwise, people keep going and going until something else happens.

So the dynamic that I have experienced lately and that I find particularly challenging is when there's a family business and a strategic buyer comes along or a private equity fund comes along and the business is in a segment that is very hot and one of the family members is interested in cashing out. Maybe another family member isn't. Talk about navigating the dynamic of a sale when there are multiple family members who are involved in the decision process.

So probably by definition all those family members are getting paid by the business some form of compensation. However, the ownership is not going to be necessarily equally split. So selling the business could mean, and we've had this before, that everyone's out of a job because the new group coming in, they may or may not keep the people.

So you have a very interesting dynamic there that the patriarch or matriarch might own 80% or 90% or 100% of the business, but you've got 15 other family members in the business, and it could be the cousins to the nephews and things of this nature. That's what creates a lot of issues with the families because then all of a sudden they say, look, I'm not making $150,000 anymore. I've got to go work for someone else, and so I'm going to be out of a job.

That does create a lot of friction. So unless you have a plan in place, and that's where sometimes you're better off having brought somebody in before from the outside to help you with the business so when those days come they have prepared those people, this won't be around forever. With respect to people taking money off the table and private equity and things of this nature, it's very common in private equity transactions to roll over somewhere between 10% to 45% of the business.

So people can roll over the part, go along with the private equity. Other people can cash out. So there's a lot of different methods in order to address part of that liquidity concern or somebody wanting to take the money off and starting up another business.

We had two young guys in Texas right now, one very successful business, and they both want to sell the business to start other businesses together because they think they can repeat the formula in other businesses. So same thing with a family-run business. People have different talents and different reasons why they want to do things, so they might have a great idea.

So done properly, you can structure around just basically anything. But having all the family members on the payroll can be problematic down the road because all of a sudden people are out of a job. So along those lines, there's a statistic that has gone around, and I'm not sure of the exact number, but third-generation family businesses have a very high failure rate.

What's the reasoning behind that? Well, it's usually 30% of the family business survived a second generation and about 12% reached a third. So you're bearing stats on that depending on how they did the survey and things of this nature. But the point is it's very, very difficult because by the time the third generation is there in many cases, there's a disconnect about why that business got started.

What does it mean? What does the wealth mean? What are we doing in the community? And there hasn't been necessarily what I call the holistic engagement by the first generation to the second and the third, so you have this huge disconnect with respect to that. And that goes for family businesses or family offices. It was interesting in preparing for this today.

I found an article actually in Crain's, and it says, Cognitive psychologists have documented the collective purpose, having a collective purpose for the third generation. Okay, that's what they're talking about. Creates neurological synchrony between individuals.

Actually aligning brainwaves to enhance the communication and trust. So unless you have that ability to talk to them, not just about numbers, not just about governance, things of this nature, you have to be able to connect with them of what are you doing and how are you doing for the family, the community, for them, for their children or wherever else they have in their lives that are special to them. You got to have that, and it starts early on.

It just doesn't happen over day. So like your example of the dinners before getting working or whatever the case may be, you got to find some unique way to have those conversations with people, and they got to be meaningful. They just can't be, you know, patina.

I mean, they got to be, you know, good conversations. They got to be continuous. Yeah, I think that makes a ton of sense to me.

So if you're talking to them, let's talk now about the thing that really gets you into your happy place and excited. Let's talk about saving tax dollars when they go to sell the business. Let's say the family is ready to sell the business and move on.

How far in advance do they need to plan, and is there special planning that needs to be done because there also is going to be an estate planning aspect along with a business transfer aspect? Yeah, our general rule of thumb is you got to start a minimum of two years and probably five years out because if you can start gifting shares at a lower amount, so the next generation shares, then whenever you do have the exit event, and then it also gets people psychologically ready for things are going to change. Maybe we should be looking at other businesses to invest in, but we're going to enhance this one to get the maximum value for the family. But if you start off two to five years out, you just have a plethora of opportunities out there.

I was at the Exit Planning Institute yesterday in Chicago giving a presentation, and that's what we were talking about. What do you need to do? It's what we refer to as a state of readiness, and it takes time to get into that state of readiness at the business level, the psychological level, the family level, and then get everyone thinking in that direction. It takes a year and a half, two years for people really for that to sink in, and then you're making sure you're rowing the boat all at the same time to get the maximum benefit to the family, not only financially but also psychologically.

Do you find that family businesses, particularly the leaders of the family business, it's very hard. I find it's very hard to get them into a conversation where you're even talking about the value of the business. Forget about an exit.

They don't want their cousin or their brother who they're in business with to ever hear them talking about an exit. Do you find that it's difficult to get them into that conversation? I would say yes for I would call the boomers. A lot of them don't want to do that, but at the same time they see a lot of their friends selling and maybe relaxing a little bit more, so it's back and forth.

I don't see that as much in the younger entrepreneurs, let's say 35 to 50. They're not as concerned because they tend to be serial entrepreneurs. They're just going to go on to the next thing.

So I really think it depends on what stage of life people are in and how they were brought up. But I would say for serial entrepreneurs, that's not even a factor. They just move on to the next deal and are going to take all the experience there.

It's interesting because the older generation has as much experience, but they're not in many cases as much of a risk taker in starting up a new business. They've been out of it for a while, but they have a lot of good experience to do it. But yeah, I think it's very difficult for them to do it.

I was working with one client and his CEO said, somebody came to us and offered us a lot of money for the business, and he said, you thought you were taking away his child. And he said, we turned down money that we should have never turned down. But the guy just wasn't himself for 60 days.

And then we finally said no, but he said it was like taking away his first child. Could it be something along the lines of, it's been embedded in their family. So I saw my dad go to this job every day, and I've been going to work every day with my dad and my brother for 25 years.

And now you're telling me that somebody else is going to be there and dad's not going to be there anymore. I'm just not going to want to go there. Yeah, that's part of it.

But for the Patriot and Matriarch, I think part of it too is, and this isn't for everyone, but I think part of it is what's my purpose in life after that. They've been so driven in building the business and having the community and having the influence of the community and being seen as a pillar of the community. Once you sell that business, a lot of that goes away.

And so I think people are going to say, well, how am I going to be looked upon? Am I going to be that important? Because in their own minds, they're very important to what they're doing. And I think that psychological aspect is a pretty big balancing part. Yeah, I can imagine.

So let's look at it from the other aspect. I'm buying a family business now. Do I need to be very concerned that these people are going to get cold feet at the last minute? What do I do to prevent that from happening? What are some successful transitions you've seen? How have buyers handled that dynamic so the transition actually goes through so it works? So I think the nurturing process has to start from the beginning.

Before they even sign an LOI, you have to sit down with them saying, what do you guys want? What are your long-term plans? Look, we want to make sure this also is structured for you well financially, tax-wise. What are your goals, ambitions? I think you have to do that, and then you'll have a higher level of assurance that the transaction is going to go through, and then whether or not it will be successful in doing the transition. A lot of times, you'll see that the younger executives who were in the family but weren't at the top level, this is going to be their ability to really run that division or really step up.

And the parents can say, look, these are the attributes of all the executives, but look at this. So there can be a lot of positive things that come out of that, and what better way for a daughter or a son to be in that position to work with a private equity firm or wherever else is coming in, private investor, and make it successful so their parents are proud of them and that they stuck with the business and continue to make it successful. Because a lot of times, their name is associated with the business and the community.

You know, as you were answering that question, I thought of something, and I'm very curious as to your answer. Do you find that in going to get financing from a bank, let's say, family businesses are able to get financing easier than, say, a business with two unrelated partners or a sole proprietorship? Is a family business that's been passed down from generations, is that preferable for banks? Well, you can't say this, you know, generically, but I will tell you, in many cases, it's harder because a lot of their net worth is only tied up in the business. Ah, interesting.

And a lot of times, they want personal guarantees. I mean, we've helped clients where, let's say, they had a line of credit or a working capital line, and we say, let's go talk to a different bank, and they go, no, no, we know these people. I say, well, I'd like to get you off the personal guarantee.

Let's just go talk to someone else, because they know them for a long time, they're always willing to sign the personal. And a lot of banks will always ask for personal guarantees of, you know, family-run businesses. And so a lot of times, we've been able to go to a different bank that wants to have a relationship, and we're able to get them off the guarantees, and they go, oh, my God, I feel so much better.

Now, you know they're always going to pay the bill because it's their business, but just that relief that all their other personal assets aren't at risk, you know, is a big thing. So the answer is, I'd say the banks tend to ask for more personal guarantees than they need to, and in a family-owned business, I see them leaning in that direction. What's the biggest misconception you think people in general in business have about family-owned and operated businesses? What's the one thing that everybody gets wrong? I think that they're not, I think people don't think they're necessarily running efficiently.

I think a lot of them are run very efficiently. I think the one thing that some of them might lack, and this is hard for any business, is to stay on top of technology and stay on top of what's going on to expand the business. Some family businesses don't want to really expand.

They just want to continue doing what they're doing, maybe have a 15 or 20% increase, but they're not interested in multiple locations and everything else. So you really need to define what that is. But I would say a lot of them do it well, or they're blind to things.

It's kind of a separation. And you can see that in their numbers, especially when you do a competitive set. You can tell when there's a lot of efficiency there, and pride.

If you just go to their location or whatever they're doing, whether they're manufacturing or it's a restaurant, you can probably tell in 15 minutes about how well they're being run, just by observations. But one thing you hit on earlier, I wanted to pass up when you were talking about conflicts, just so I don't overlook this. In conflicts in families, obviously it's very, very difficult to balance that.

What we have found in some cases, it works really well, is having the effect of a code word to say, I don't want to talk about that now, I need to talk to you privately. So I'm having a discussion with you, and you bring up something that I don't want to talk about in front of other people or I'm uncomfortable right now. I would just say, hey, Dave, we need to talk to Laura, or we need to have a name there.

It sends a signal to you, back off, we need to talk about this a different time, I have something else. I think that's very important, because it gives people a way out of a meeting, it gives a signal out there, without the other people knowing what that means. And I think that's just a nice little way of dealing with that.

I've also seen people do that with their kids, where the kids are confused about, they lie, they do not lie, and so they tell them, give me a word, and then we'll talk about it later. So one of those things, you always have to have an ability, in whatever you're doing, for people to save face, and to have a place where they can talk to you about things when no one's judging them. And I think in family, businesses, and everything else, I think that's a huge consideration.

You know, Harry, that's not a bad idea, even in regular business partnerships, if you're going to a meeting together, to have the third party name that doesn't exist in your company, that you say, oh, we need to talk to Elijah about this. Okay, yeah, we'll talk to Elijah when we get back to the office. That means, shut the hell up.

Stop talking. It's interesting. I learned part of that when I was young, when I was actually selling shoes, and I was taught that, you know, if a customer is not in the mood for buying, whatever, you know, you might be the wrong salesperson.

We used to have something, and I thought this was, I thought the manager was brilliant. He would say to me, he says, Harry, just tell him, you need to talk to me about rack 34. So what he would do then, he would take over my job of selling to the person, and then he would bring in something else, and 99% of the case, he would end up selling him the shoes.

So it's, again, it's another way for people to work together in a very, much of a way where no one knows what's going on. I love it. That's such a great idea.

Harry, what are the services that you and Sandrowski Corporate Advisors provide to family businesses? What are the most common things that they come to you for? Most common things they come to us for are the, it's going to be the tax and financial structuring and making sure that, you know, they're set up properly for whatever they want to do down the road, whether it's sale, restructuring, you know, bringing in private equity, and that's what, you know, we try to do for them, and we try to do it along with their estate planning, and again, it's a process. It was interesting yesterday on the panel I mentioned on estate planning, all the panelists agreed it's an 18- to 24-month process mentally for people to get in that state of mind, so it takes a while. You just can't do everything else and say, here's everything at one time.

You've got to give it to them in small pieces, but at the same time, tell them there are gateways. After 12 months, this decision has to be made or else it's going to go by you, you know, so you have to put it in small pieces for them because everyone takes in the information at a different rate of speed, and there's other things going on in their lives that might be complicating for them at the time. All right, so if you have a family-owned business or you're involved with a family-owned business and they want some advice on structuring their business, perhaps for a sale, avoiding the taxes legally that they don't have to pay if they're concerned about passing the wealth on from one generation to the next, you need to give Sandrowski Corporate Advisors a call.

Here's their number. You can reach them anywhere in the U.S. by dialing 866-717-1607, 866-717-1607. Harry and his team have an enormous amount of experience helping family-owned businesses as well as family offices.

They work with them on any number of issues, from as simple as preparing a valuation if someone's looking to buy the business so you know what the business is worth all the way up through complex tax planning that has to be done five years in advance but that can save a ton of money if the business is transitioned. I highly encourage you to reach out to Harry and his team today, 866-717-1607. Sandrowski Corporate Advisors, they can work with you anywhere across the country and anywhere in North America through their relationship and their partnership with Prosperity Partners.

Harry, thank you so much for joining us today. It was an absolute pleasure talking to you about this subject. Thank you, Dave.

All right, folks, that'll do it for this edition of the Inside B.S. Show. My name is Dave Lorenzo. We'll be back with you here again tomorrow for another edition of our show.

Until then, here's hoping you make a great living and live a great life.