Hey now, everybody. Welcome to the inside BS show. We are doing a fantastic interview today.

My guest is Lester Cook and I'm going to have him tell you exactly what he does. But the thing that caught my eye about Lester is the phrase cost segregation. Now I know that may not sound sexy, but you're going to find out exactly what that is and exactly why many of you who are listening to us today need it.

Lester, welcome to the show. Tell us, what is the inside BS about Lester Cook and how did you get involved in cost segregation? Oh, well, thank you for having me, Dave. Um, how did I get involved in cost segregation? Um, I think you can ask every single person that is involved in cost segregation, the same question, and they'll give you the same answers.

I have no idea, honestly. Um, you know, I responded to a job posting back in my junior year of college and 20 plus years later, here I am. So what is it? Nobody knows what it is.

All right. We're going to, we're going to debunk all the myths. Everybody who's listening right now is going, what the hell is it? What is cost segregation? So tell us what exactly is cost segregation.

Cost segregation is a tax planning tool that real estate professionals can utilize to reduce their tax burdens. And that sounds not very interesting. But really it is.

Right. So, um, basically what we do is we reverse engineer buildings and their components from a cost perspective. So, you know, when you're talking about deductions from your tax returns, you know, that, you know, uh, a car you can write off over five years, right.

And a computer you can write off over five years. Well, the building's over 40. Well, but there's certain things inside of that building you can do faster.

And how do you figure out what you can do faster? It's cost segregation. Um, it's just an, an engineering based principle that, uh, you get a, you know, myself, I'm a construction management major in school and an engineer from Purdue. And, uh, here I am doing tax work.

So, uh, All right. So are you, is it, are you speeding up depreciation? Like, give me, give me an example. So like, I get a, I get a new, I get a new HVAC system.

Right. And you know, uh, I call you and you're like, Oh, you can, you can do is instead of depreciating that over 20 years, you can depreciate it over five. Is that, is that how it works? Yeah.

Similar HVAC is not a good example. Um, basically where we add the most value is you get a, you know, you say, Hey, you know what? I just bought a building for $10 million. That's all I know about a building, 10 million bucks.

And we go, okay, great. You know, let's, let's dive in and let's reverse engineer this out. And we can say, Oh, the carpeting inside of that building is $200,000.

And you can write that off over five years. And you know, the, the parking lot outside now that's $350,000. And we can write that off over 15 years.

And you know, the conduit and the wire and the walls that are related to the break room and the kitchens and that stuff. Well, we, we can write that over five years. And, and really, you know, we, we take a single line item that a client may say is a $10 million building and we'll blow it apart into hundreds of different line items.

And you know, can get into the minutia of, you know, that outlet in the wall is 200 bucks, but that's what powers your computer. So that's five year property. And all of it is, is really, it's, it's time value of money and acceleration of deductions really compounded with bonus depreciation right now.

And you know, the, the tax jobs and creation act extended a hundred percent bonus depreciation. So basically anything that we can find that's got a 20 year less depreciable life, you get to write off a hundred percent of it in the year you bought it. So, you know, now you're talking about that $10 million building, you know, typically we'll say, you know, 15 to 25% of the cost is short life property.

So, you know, two and a half million dollars, uh, two, two and a half million dollars in immediate deductions on a $10 million building. Pretty awesome. All right.

So do people get you involved when they're doing their diligence before they purchase a property or do they, do they get you involved? Like they stumble upon the property and they go, you know, we've got a lot of stuff here. Maybe we should talk to Lester about what we, what we should do. Is it better for people to get you involved when they're looking at the property before they buy it? You know, it, it all depends.

Um, you know, I work with a few savvy investors and they get us involved very early on and, and can roll in what our estimates are into their projections and it helps, you know, again, add to the cash flows and rate returns on some of their portfolios that they're looking for investors on. Um, you know, and oftentimes folks learn about this from things like this and they go, Hey, you know, my taxes are due in two months. Um, I'm going to call my accountant.

Can we do this? And the answer is yes. Um, you know, so you know, the, the, the wonderful thing about this is there's no amended tax returns. It's, it's a simple accounting method change.

So if you bought a property 10 years ago and you never did anything with it and you're learning about this today, we can help. And it's, you put it on your turn to current returns. Okay.

And so you, the example you just gave, you said, Hey, my taxes are due in a couple of months. Is it, is it that fast? Can you, can you get it done that quickly? Yeah. Typically we can get a, a cost segregation study done from the time we get everything in our hands, um, within 30 to 60 days.

Um, you know, there are certain situations where it may take longer. Um, but typically it's, it's 30 to 60 days. And is it something that, uh, your garden variety accountant knows about or do we have to, are we educating accountants about this to let them come to you? Because you specialize in this.

This is, is it, this is all you do, right? Exactly. Exactly. Um, my, my firm, KBKG, um, we're a specialty tax consulting firm.

Um, we've been around since 1999. Um, and since that time, we've been working and doing exactly what you're saying of educating CPAs that may not be aware of this. Um, I would say, you know, 70% of the work that we get is referred from CPAs that say, you know, this, this is a wonderful opportunity for their clients.

I don't know how to do this stuff, or it's not my best interest to do this stuff. I'm doing their tax returns. I need, you know, an expert, an engineer to do this, to handle this.

And that's where we, we get the vast majority of our work. Now is that Lester, is that, is that kind of your differentiating factor? What makes you and your firm different from, from other people? The fact that you're engineers and you know, the tax code is that, is that it? That that's part of it. Um, you know, there, there's some other firms that are very similar to ours.

Um, but, but one of the things that I feel that makes us different is, you know, each of our partners and our teams are led by people who have a tremendous amount of experience in the, in the field. Um, you know, I mentioned before personally, I've, I've been doing this over 20 years. I spent a lot of time at one of the big four accounting firms doing exactly this before I came here.

And as do my counterparts who lead our practices in Atlanta, New York, Dallas, and LA. Um, you know, and we did the same type of work for multi million billion dollar corporations, fortune, you know, 50 corporations. And now we're able to provide the same, you know, tax strategies to folks that are, you know, normal individuals, right? Just a small time real estate investor that maybe has, you know, 10 rental properties.

And yeah, we can help you. And we can provide that same level that we provided to, you know, those mega companies and throughout the country. All right.

We're going to find out exactly who Lester's ideal client is in just one sec. Right now. I want to let you know folks that today's show is sponsored by the revenue roadmap guide.

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All right, we're back with Lester Cook and he's helping us understand cost segregation. So Lester, tell us if, if we want to find an ideal client for you, and many people who are listening to this today are like me, we are, we're out there constantly talking to professionals, constantly talking to people who invest in real estate. How can we find the ideal client for you to help with cost segregation? Oh, I appreciate that.

Um, I guess my ideal client is first and foremost, somebody with a tax liability. Um, you know, I can accelerate a bunch of deductions, but if you don't have tax liability, I can't really help you. Um, and then secondly is, is that they own or are acquiring building, you know, any type of construction activity, um, of property.

You know, that, that's really as simple as it is. Um, you know, there are some specific rules related to some passive investments and things like that. So, um, you know, that, that's a nuance that we probably have to dig into, but really it's as simple as if you're an investor or an owner of real estate, um, that has a tax liability, we can help.

Okay. So if, um, let's say I'm a real estate agent or I'm a real estate broker and I'm in commercial real estate and I'm showing a property to an investor and the investors, you know, the investors savvy, but maybe they don't know about cost segregation. Is that, is that somebody who, um, so I'm, I'm in real estate.

If I, is that somebody I can introduce to you and you have like a checklist and you can look over the investment and say, there's some things there we can take advantage of. Yeah, absolutely. Um, you know, again, you know, any connection is great.

The, um, the, the one of the most important things though is, is making sure that, you know, if that real estate investors referred to me by, by a mortgage or a real estate broker, we still want to get their CPA involved somehow. Right. Again, you know, I don't want to be in a situation where I'm telling you that I can get you all of this great tax, you know, savings and your CPA looking at this going, Oh no, you can't use any of this stuff.

So, you know, it's always critical to make sure that the accountants or tax preparers are involved with in the process as well. Um, but yeah, you know, a, a, a broker, um, you know, a wealth management, anybody like that that's got clients that, you know, have, have real estate, um, or would be a great referral. You know, so you said something there I think is really important and it's a great, uh, it's a great opportunity for us to talk about relationships and business development in general.

I love how you said, well, you know, I would definitely accept that introduction, but we want to get their CPA involved. Explain about, you know, protecting that relationship and helping the CPA stay involved. How important is that for you and your business? Oh, it's hugely critical.

Um, you know, the way that, that we often look at things, and again, you know, most of our work comes from a CPA referral. Um, you know, the way we look at it is we're, we're there to help the CPA be the hero. Um, the analogy that I always share with, uh, with potential clients and even new staff as I hire them is, you know, we always look at the CPA as, as the general practitioner doctor.

And you know, we're the specialist, we're the cardiologist, we're, you know, the, the brain surgeon, whatever you want to call it. Um, you know, I'm, I'm not the guy that you come to when you had a cold, right? Like, no, go, go to your doctor, make sure that you're in good health. And if there's something wrong, then come talk to us.

So, um, you know, we, we look at that, um, that relationship with the CPA is as critical because they're the person that quite honestly is the trusted advisor to the client. Right. And that's the, you know, they're, they have all of the, all of the trust of the client themselves.

So if, if, you know, usually if we say something's good and the CPA jumps in and says, yeah, that's a good idea. Then, you know, that's a fantastic situation. And what, what percentage of your business, Lester comes from referrals from people like CPAs or maybe tax attorneys? Oh, it's well over 60, 70%.

Um, the, the vast majority of our work comes from, from CPA referral channels. And how do they find you? So how does, how does somebody, how does somebody, you know, get Lester Cook on their speed dial to call when they have a cost segregation issue? Yeah. Um, you know, we, we present throughout the country.

Um, you know, I actually, I'm presenting here. I don't know when this is going to air officially, but at the end of January I'm presenting with, uh, one of the Ohio tax conferences. Um, back in September, I presented at one of the, uh, the ILCPA conference here that was in, uh, in not Sharma in Rosemont.

Um, so, you know, we're always, we're all over at, at any of these conferences. Um, we also provide a ton of free educational seminars, um, you know, CPE events, whether they be web-based or, um, you know, we do those weekly actually as, as a firm. We also do in-house ones.

So, you know, if the CPA Googles me, finds us, finds our firm says, Hey, you know what? I'd love for you to come out and talk about cost segregation and get into the weeds of it all for an hour. Um, with my staff and my managers and whatever. Yeah.

Happy to do it. Um, and that, that's just how we've built our brand for the last 20 plus years. Okay.

So you'll do an in-house presentation, kind of a learn at lunch. Everybody, everybody grab a slice of pizza and let's talk cost segregation, right? Or you guys also do continuing professional education. So if people are listening and they're part of a CPA association, like a statewide or a County CPA association, folks can come to an event that you guys will be presenting at and they can get continuing education credits as a result.

Now you're, you're in Illinois, right? Your office is, is based in Illinois. Is this something that you can do pretty much anywhere in the country? Cause you mentioned a presentation in Ohio. Can you, can you go anywhere and do this? Yeah, this is a federal tax deduction and a federal tax concept.

Um, it can be used for your state income tax is as well. Um, there's some different nuances. A lot of States decouple from bonus depreciation, which I'm sure, um, you've heard of that before.

Um, you know, Illinois is a great example of that. Back in June, um, governor Pritzker signed the, the, um, the budget bill that officially decoupled the state of Illinois from bonus depreciation in 2021 and 2022. So, um, you know, there's, there's still some depth, definitely some benefit, but it's, you know, it's not as lucrative.

What does that, what does that mean? He decoupled it. Does that mean you can't deduct it on your state taxes? Is that what that means? Or what does that mean? Now what, what decoupling from bonus depreciation means is, you know, as I mentioned, you know, if you've got an asset that's got a depreciable life of less than 20 years, you get a hundred percent bonus depreciation. You get to write a hundred percent of a hundred percent of it off this year, instead of, you know, one fifth or one 15th for, you know, for example, um, the state of Illinois said, no, we, we don't, we don't want you to be able to write a hundred percent of it off.

You, you have to use the standard, you know, five years or 15 years. Um, and we all know, you know, it's because we're broke, right? We need as much revenue as we can get here. So, um, and there are a lot of other state, California is another example that decouples from bonus depreciation.

Um, again, from a federal perspective, you get to take advantage of all of that and from the accelerated lives and methods, you get to take advantage of that from, from a state perspective, though, you may have a limited amount of benefit from it. You still get to accelerate the lives, but you know, the additional bonus, um, some States don't have that. Okay.

So take us through, give us a couple of examples with what is on, what's on your checklist when you're looking at a particular property to see, to see what's a good candidate property and what's not, what do you look for? Yeah. Um, I mean the, the main thing that we look for is, you know, whether there's really something inside of the building, right? So if you're talking about a huge, like a warehouse, right, you know, a warehouse might be pretty empty, so there might not be a ton in there, but if it's a big mega distribution warehouse, that's got a lot of site improvements and things like that, there's probably some benefit. Um, you know, really it's, it's the use of the properties.

Um, you know, the, the commercial type properties, those tend to get a little bit higher reclassification rates as we call them, you know, accelerating from long life to short life. Um, you know, office spaces, office buildings themselves, those, those tend to get pretty nice rate of returns. And quite honestly, what we've experienced in the last few years here is a massive uptick in residential rental properties.

And I know you'd mentioned commercial, you can do this for residential rental income as well. So, you know, if you own a four flat or an eight flat and you know, there's, there's a ton of opportunity there, um, to accelerate some deductions. All right, Lester, how do you, how do you get paid on this now? Do you, do you, do you charge a flat fee? Do you do it by the hour? Is there, is there some sort of a contingency element? How does, how does your firm make money on this? Yeah, we, what we do is we will scope the project ahead of time for free.

Um, so, you know, basically Dave, you, you call us up or you find us on the web and you email me and you say, Hey, Lester, I got a $10 million building. Here's the address. Here's what it is.

And we'll put together a proposal and show you, you know, what we expect your reclassification rates to look like, what your cash flows will look like. And we put a fee on that. Um, you know, it's, it's, it's a flat fee, um, but it changes depending on the type of property, the location of the property, the size of the property.

There's a handful of variables. Um, it's not a contingent type. You know, if we get you $10,000 and you're going to, now it's not like that.

It's, you know, typically what we see is, you know, a seg can run, you know, as, as low as five or $6,000 and, you know, they could go up to six figures for, for some massive properties. But, um, the vast majority of the stuff we do is, you know, 10 to $15,000. And are you, are you ever surprised that people when, when you're introduced to them, they, they, they just don't know what cost segregation is or do most real estate investors know about it? Do their accountants know about it? What's, you know, how, how prevalent is this in the, in the real estate industry and among CPAs? I have to admit, I'm, I'm thoroughly shocked that folks still don't know about this.

Um, you know, I've, I've been doing this myself for over 20 years. The, the idea and the concept of cost segregation in a one way, shape or form through the different changes in legislation goes back to the sixties. So this has been around for a long time.

Um, it is not controversial. Um, I mean, there's some nuances to it that could be, but it's, it's really not a, you know, it's not a tax shelter. It's not, you know, an inversion.

It's not some crazy offshoring and things like that. It's, it's time value of money and accelerated depreciation. And it's, it's mind boggling how many folks are not really aware of this.

Um, and it's, you know, it drives some significant benefits. And tell us a little bit about who is not. I want you to exclude now who's not a good candidate for this.

Who do you not want to ever be introduced to? Give us the folks who, you know, we might think to introduce you to, but that's not a good intro. Who, who, who do you want to stay away from? Yeah, I think the, the prime person that we do get introduced to frequently that that is not a candidate is a flipper, right? So the idea with the time value of money and the accelerated deduction is that you're, you're holding these properties longterm or relatively longterm, five, 10, 15 years. Um, you know, if you're talking about buying an apartment building, cleaning it up, selling it within six to 12 months, um, that I'm not your person.

Um, you know, everything that I can accelerate when you go to sell that property, there's something called recapture and you have recapture on it all. So it essentially, you know, you give back all of the deductions that you just took. So, um, you know, a flipper is, is not a good person for us to, to, to work with.

I mean, well, it's not the ideal candidate. I'd love to work with them, but you know, they're, they're not the ideal situation. So buy and hold somebody who's a, somebody who's an investor who's in it for, what's the minimum, like five years at least, right? Minimum say yeah, five years.

It could get as low as three again, depending with bonus depreciation and how large the basis is. But it would typically say five years. What about the hospitality industry or hotels to hotels tend to be good opportunities for you? Hotels are fantastic opportunities.

Um, might be a little bit tougher right now because they're probably in very significant loss positions from, you know, the last two years. Um, but historically hotels have been a fantastic opportunity. Uh, we, we've done hundreds of hotels, um, resorts, things like that.

Um, fantastic opportunities. All right. Give us, give us the inside BS on Lester cook now.

So, uh, so you, you were, uh, you're at, um, you're in college and you're thinking to yourself, Hey, you know, I want to go into accounting. You join one of the big accounting firms and you immediately go into cost segregation. Is that how it worked? Yeah, no, no, not anywhere near.

Um, so I, I was actually a, you know, a student at Purdue, um, and was working for an architect at the time, um, basically doing red line drawings, um, making modifications. And one of my friends that was in one of my classes got a job working as a cost estimator and, uh, you know, being construction management, I was like, well, that, that kind of makes sense. Um, and he was making way more than the like $6 an hour that I was making as a, you know, an apprentice draftsman.

So, um, you know, he got me in the door and it was a, it was a, a cost estimator for an accounting firm. Like, this is weird. Like what, what are we doing? And it's like you walk in and they've had blueprints you rolled out and you, you mark them up and you, you did your counts and everything.

And then, you know, you, as, as you know, the job progressed, you start to learn like, okay, this is used for taxes. I, I don't understand what all of this is. And, um, you know, quickly became a tax consultant because this was an engineering based analysis for, for taxes.

And, um, the entire team or the management team at the firm that I had started with were ex big four folks. And they always talked about like, Oh, you know, when I was at the big four, I worked on this huge client and this huge client. And you know, we would travel all over like, well, that, that sounds awesome.

So I started applying to, to, you know, move from a smaller firm up to one of the big four firms and, uh, got into one of the big four firms and spent a decade there before a KBKG came calling. And, uh, I, I started the practice here in Chicago. Um, little over six years ago now.

Oh, that's great. And how is, how is the Chicago market these days for, for what you do? It's, it's pretty solid. Um, you know, there, there is a lot of competition in, in the Chicago market.

There's a lot of folks that, that do cost segregation here. Um, but you know, there's, there's a lot of need for it. Um, you know, I, we, we've seen, um, uh, not seeing the slowdown at all in, you know, deals that are getting done.

Um, you know, it seems like the construction towers are still here. And like I said, the residential rental property or the industry is booming. Um, you know, we had that little dip in, in prices and that just meant people that were on the sidelines that had money, it's opportunity.

Um, you know, I, my career, I've, I've been through three recessions and every time we've had one or a, you know, a financial crisis or, you know, the COVID crisis, you know, it's, we've come out stronger, um, because the opportunities are there. So. All right.

Now fill us in on how you get business. Cause you and I met through provisors, which is a professional business network and there are outstanding people in that network. Um, tell us, does that work for you and what other methods do you use for attracting business to your firm? Yeah.

Provisors has been great. Um, I was actually introduced to provisors through a, uh, a referring CPA that we work with. Um, because, you know, she said, you know, I, I think you guys would fit into this wonderfully.

Um, and I'd never known anything about provisors. So I'm going on my second year as part of provisors and this has been, been great. Um, you know, but as far as getting work, I, I, I have a couple of, uh, business development individuals that work in the office here with me and it's, you know, their job to go out and help create these, these relationships and these networks with CPA firms throughout the country.

Um, we're at least throughout the region. We've got folks in each different regions, but, um, and that, that's really what, what we do. Um, we, we rely heavily on referrals, um, whether it's from the CPAs that we meet or from the clients that we already have, you know, tell, tell your friend, you, you liked what you got.

You liked the service that you got. Tell a friend, please. Um, and, and it's worked.

Um, you know, it's very, very grassroots of what we've done and it's, it's worked. It's definitely worked. All right.

So speak directly to all the CPAs who are listening now, give them the step-by-step guide to sending Lester cook a client cause you're going to make them look like a hero. Tell them what they need to do and how they need to do it. Yeah, it's, it's very simple actually.

Um, you could call me at, uh, you know, in our office here, you can email me, find our website. There's, I don't know on kbkg.com there's a button that you click that says, how do I qualify? And you click that button and fill out a form. Uh, one of our team will contact you immediately.

Um, but you know, if you don't want to do that and you just want to say, you know, call Lester and, and have a cost basis and an address of the property. And I can do most of the due diligence on my own. Um, and, and that's all we really need.

So, so how do you do that? So they, they give you the, they give you the address, right? And then you just, you dig into the tax records. How do you, how do you do the due diligence on your own? Um, and you know, I'm asking cause I don't know the accountants probably know, but I don't know. So tell me.

Well, uh, a lot of what we need is just as simple as Google earth right now. Right. So, you know, you tell me that you spent $10 million on an office building on Wabash Avenue in Chicago.

And I say, all right, you know, let me, let me go into the Google machine and, uh, and pull this up and I can get a 360 degree view of it. I can see the renovations that were done. I can, you know, most cases I can go back in the timeline and see if additions were made.

And, you know, it's, it's wonderful to have all of this at your fingertips. Um, we can also utilize sources like, um, co-stars and you know, all of the other public record type things that you have. Um, but really it's as simple as that.

And once we get in and see what the building is, like I said, we've been doing this for 20 years, we've got thousands of studies in our database. We've got our own algorithms that we can come up with. I think based on what this is and what it has and what it is that, you know, 18% reclassification is what we'll come out with.

And that's enough to get together a proposal, um, to send out to a client, to a taxpayer, to sign up and get started. Uh, once we get started, then we'll, we'll set up a, an inspection of the property to come out and physically see what's there. Um, and start taking our notes and taking our field estimates and put everything together.

All right. Tell us, tell us a little bit about Lester Cook, the man, the myth, the legend. So I see on your, on your LinkedIn profile, I saw you have, uh, some type of a basketball court in the background there.

Right. What do, what do we got? What do we got going on there? What's, what, that's yeah, that's the Purdue Boilermakers. Okay.

Number, number three team in the country right now. So, um, you know, looking forward to the final four for, uh, for this season, that's for sure. Very nice.

Very nice. And, uh, and what do you do for fun, Lester? What, um, what, what, what hobbies do you have? What gets you, uh, what gets you excited for the weekend? Yeah. Well, um, I've got two little boys, uh, eight and 10 years old.

So they, they keep me very busy, uh, you know, between little league baseball and flag football and all of that fun stuff. Um, and then, you know, the, quite frankly, the, the job here is, is almost a 24 seven job, especially in the busy seasons. Um, and you know, my, my lovely wife at home too.

So, um, that's, that's really what I do. I'd love to say that I'm a world traveler and things like that, but I don't have time or desire to travel. No, I listen.

I understand with two, with two boys. So what are the, what are the boys into now? What are they like in the winter time? What, uh, what are the, what are the kids do in the winter? Cause baseball doesn't start until the spring. Right.

So what are they, what are they doing in the winter? Yeah, we we've got flag football. Um, second season of flag football or say, um, winter season of flag football here starts in a couple of weeks. Um, and then Santa Claus brought him an Xbox series X. Oh, there you go.

That's, that's what we're doing right now. Opportunity there. Yeah, that's right.

Yeah. This is the first, uh, you know, the first real Christmas where it was like, you know what, let's, let's wait on, uh, let's wait on the outdoor activities that they got to do with other kids. Let's get them something they can do in the house by themselves.

Exactly. Exactly. Screen time doesn't really matter as much right now.

No, it's good. The electronic babysitter is, uh, is, is in place. All right, Lester.

So give us, give us how people can get in touch with you. What is, what are the, give us the vital information. Give us the website again.

Give us the phone number. How can people get in touch with you to talk about cost segregation, whether they're CPAs or into real estate or they're investors themselves? How can they get in touch with Lester cook? Yeah, perfect. Uh, websites, uh, kbkg.com, uh, as in kite, kite boy, kite girl, KBKG, um, phone number is 312-248-7347.

I'm, I'm here in a lovely South side of Chicago, South loop. Um, and then my email address is, is pretty simple as well. It's Lester L E S T E R.cook.co.uk at kbkg.com as well.

All right, Lester. Thank you so much. It's been great having you on the show here today, folks.

This has been the inside BS show with Lester cook. We talked about cost segregation. I learned a lot myself.

If you are an accountant, if you're a CPA and you have corporate clients and you haven't done any work in cost segregation, reach out to Lester and have his firm come in, have him, have him do a talk to you and your, uh, and your group. They can do it virtually or they can do it live and in person. And if you would like to get in touch with Lester, all of his information is down in the show notes on the inside BS show.

We are grateful to our sponsor Sindrowski corporate advisors. So remember if you are a private equity fund or you're running a family office or you need help with valuations, especially if you need help with valuations when it comes to litigation, Sindrowski corporate advisors is the place to go. They are the people to see.

They are the folks you need to call. You can reach out to them at 8 6 6 7 1 7 1 6 0 7. I'm Dave Lorenzo until tomorrow. Here's hoping you make a great living and live a great life.

Thank you.