[Speaker 1]
Welcome to the Inside BS show. This is Dave Lorenzo, and we got a treat for you today. I've got my brother.

No, he's not my, well, he is my brother, but he's not my natural brother. Rick Hayhurst is with us and you guys are going to love Rick. He is a lead generation and marketing guru.

He's also an expert master massage therapist. He's a teacher, he's an instructor, and he is very spiritual. He's actually, we actually have some kind of a connection where every time I talk to him, number one, I feel better about myself.

So that's why we're doing this show. It has nothing to do with any of you and certainly nothing to do with Rick, but it's going to make me feel good. And second of all, I always learn something.

Rick is the founder of Blitzbee marketing among like probably half a dozen other companies. So join me in welcoming Rick Hayhurst to the Inside BS show. Hello, sir.

How are you today?

[Speaker 2]
I am good. And my goodness, I thank you so much for such an amazing introduction. Now I feel great about myself.

And so my, the rest of my day is going to be amazing.

[Speaker 1]
Well, that'll be the show for today, folks. So thanks for joining these two old guys talking about how they make each other feel good. Speaking of which, Mr. Diversity, happy Pride Month. I hope you're, I hope you've enjoyed the first few days of Pride Month. I certainly have.

[Speaker 2]
Yes. Pride is amazing. It's a time to celebrate who you are, your identity, whatever that means for you, just celebrate, accept yourself, accept your friends, accept your neighbors.

You know, like live in your full self-expression.

[Speaker 1]
I, you know, I wish, I wish more people would get that. So this is not about anyone foisting their beliefs on you, dear listener or viewer. This is about letting people just be who they are.

How about we just leave everybody alone and let them enjoy their own lives? How about we do that? Right.

That's what I'm proud of today. Yeah. Yeah.

Like what, what's the other thing all about? Like what? Yeah.

Why, why, like, like how, so let's get into that for a second. How much energy does it, how much more energy does it take to be hateful and to like, if you ever, like I've found myself and this is me, right? I'm not gonna put my baggage on you, but this is me.

Like whenever I'm envious, I'm just going to use envy as a negative emotion. Whenever I'm envious of somebody else and I spend time thinking to myself, man, I, you know, I'm smarter than that person. How come they have more success than me?

Or I work harder than that person. How come they have more success than me? I am exhausted, right?

That exhausts the living crap out of me. But when I tell someone you're such a fantastic person, I really enjoy hanging out with you. Thank you for spending time with me.

I feel good. I feel energized. How much more, how draining is it to be hateful?

And I don't know, Rick, I have no idea because you and I, I think, I think of myself as not being this way. You're definitely not this way. But how, how, how exhausting must these people who spew constant hate, how much have, they must be like the most tired people on earth.

They must sleep like 14, 18 hours a day because it is just so draining to be a crappy person and be hateful all the time.

[Speaker 2]
Oh my goodness. You know, if you see those people around you run for your life, like run, there's no need to be in all that negativity and all that drama. In fact, it just drops your energy and we're all up to so many things.

We need that energy to harness that energy and put it into the projects that we're working on. If I'm, and when you see someone out in the world who needs a little dose of joy, it doesn't take much just to share goodness with someone. Even if that goodness is silence, you know, like we don't have to be giving our opinions about everything and like, woe is me.

And, you know, unfortunately, and to those people who are struggling or suffering, you know, there's a way out. You know, I had a teacher, a sensei who said to me, train with joy. Train with joy, no matter what is happening, train with joy.

And so in the moments where we're suffering, there is the possibility of looking at that moment for what it is, which is just a lesson and, and figuring out, mustering the courage to face it with some level of joy. It doesn't mean non-reality. It just means like, let's turn that thing on its head.

[Speaker 1]
So I'll tell you a story and it is, this is a strategy. There's, there's strategy in this, and there's also spirituality in this. When I was broke and I've been broke a lot during my life, but when I was, when I was broke and bill collectors were calling me, the nicer I was to them, the harder it was for them to be really crappy to me.

So the minute the phone would ring and, you know, hopefully somebody who's listening to this, this will resonate with you right now, the minute the phone would ring and they would say, hello, this is Mrs. Smith calling on a recorded line for David Lorenzo. Are you David Lorenzo? And I would say, well, yes, I am.

And they, and immediately they launch into, uh, just letting you know that this, this call is an attempt to collect a debt. I can almost recite it verbatim. I've heard it so much.

This call is an attempt to collect a debt and anything you say can be used for that purpose or whatever. And I would say, all right, well, thank you for letting me know that. And the minute I, like they would, they would get into, all right, you owe this and this and this.

And I would say, well, before we get into that, tell me, how's your day going? And they would, they would say, what? I would say, well, I, I want, I want you to know that before, before anything happens, I know you're doing your job and I'm not going to give you a hard time for doing your job.

I probably don't want to have the conversation that you want to have with me, but I'm not going to be nasty to you because I know you've got a job to do. Rick, everything changed. Like everything about like almost 90, 92 to 95% of the calls after that.

The person was like, you know, I'm really sorry I have to do this, but I got to tell you, like they immediately, you become a person and not like something they're checking off of their list. And I mean, if, if you can take somebody who does that for like, it takes a special human and we need these people, right? Like society needs these people or, or, you know, sometimes bills wouldn't get paid.

If you can take somebody and separate the person from the act and treat them like a person, a lot of the time, the, the entire dynamic is going to be different. You know, it's just, it's just one of those things. And my point in saying that is if we can do it, if we can do it with bill collectors, we can certainly do it with the person like we're in line with in the supermarket or the guy at the red light.

Like, is it really that important to get through the intersection before this guy? Like, can we just let the, let the guy go? Like the, the, the 15 seconds it's going to take to let him be angry with you and get into the intersection.

Like, why would you give him the power to ruin your, I just don't get it, Rick. I don't get it.

[Speaker 2]
It's so fascinating. You know, I always look at a constellation of energies. Like what is the constellation of energy with that bill collector?

They're living in a state of someone else's suffering in every moment of their job, because someone's suffering means they're not able to pay their bills. And so they're really just living in the expression of that energy that they, it's a constellation of energies. They can't help that.

So you come in, you shed a little light, you spread a little joy. You give them an access to their own humanity. And now they shift.

They, they, they have a little more space for the human in you versus this machine or these constellations, constellation of energies. Same with the red light. Like it's such a funny thing to even think about our human drives and human motivation.

And what is it that we're trying to access in those moments that we express our misery, our suffering, you know, transforming suffering is an art form, but it's really something to be up to. So appreciating you just like having this conversation going in this way at this moment, this is a constellation of energies. And as we are reaching out into your audience, into the sphere, you know, it attracts the energy that begets energy.

So I appreciate you.

[Speaker 1]
Well, listen, I want to, I want to get into, uh, we, this, so this is, by the way, this is the conversation that Rick and I would have if we were having lunch together. So, uh, let's talk about, let's talk about lead generation for a minute. It's something that you and I both love.

You guys, you guys are really good at it and you've built an entire business around it. I don't want to, we, we can get into how you got to Blitzbee, but let's talk about something that people misunderstand about lead generation. Cause you, you're very, your way and the way you approach people is you always seek to understand someone else's perspective first.

Whether it's a discovery call from, for business development or like we're having a, you know, having a drink together. So what is it that people don't understand about lead generation and what, and in it's also in your nature to teach people. So what do you have to, what's the first thing you need to teach people when they come to you and they say, Rick, I, I just, I'm not having enough conversations.

I can close deals, Rick, right? Cause that's your ideal client. I can close deals, but I'm just not having enough conversations.

What's the first thing they don't understand?

[Speaker 2]
I think the most important aspect of this conversation is to keep it simple, like kiss, keep it simple, stupid. Like really keep it simple. We feel encumbered around lead generation mostly because we don't understand it.

We, we understand like going out and having conversations, networking. We understand like, oh, I can advertise on Facebook or I can run a Google ad, but we don't necessarily understand how to keep that as a system really super simple. So the, the rest of that conversation as it relates to leads, and I'll just show you this is cause it's fun.

There's like, you know, 250 or 300 cards right here.

[Speaker 1]
Everybody has, he's got, Rick is holding up. He was holding up business cards. If you're, if you're listening, he's got, he's fanned out dozens and dozens of business cards.

Okay.

[Speaker 2]
Go ahead. And so, um, you know, so these are leads, you know, so people go to events and they get leads. But the question I always bring to the table as well, what happens to the lead?

And it's actually a funny conversation. And it's the same when you're doing lead generation online. What happens with the lead?

You need to have a system to follow up with those leads. And if you don't have enough leads, you know, a hundred dollars a month, um, is a good ad spend. It's not a lot, but it's enough to, you know, bump a little, a lead or two into the, into the pipeline.

So what is the system looking at? How do you build a system that's really simple and what are the tools available to keep that simple? Now with the advent of AI, um, it's actually really, really simple.

And sometimes people don't understand how to create those systems. So to your question, keep it unencumbered. Let's just hold, keep the whole thing unencumbered.

Let's think of a three or five step process just to put, put that framework in our brain. Let's figure out where are we getting the leads from? Um, there is the traditional advertising model, which is about demographics, but we build audiences based on intent.

So if someone's looking for a screwdriver, you know, we can marry that person who's looking for the screwdriver to the guy who's selling the screwdriver. Um, so it, it can be that specific. And then, you know, there's systems in place that you can put in place to support that marriage.

You know, obviously you need an introduction, you need to date for a moment and then you can get married, you know? And so what is the process that allows for that to happen really succinctly? Now, there's a lot of supporting evidence, you know, like your reviews, your testimonials, um, seeing your social media online, having interviews, seeing, seeing the humanity of Dave Lorenzo that gives me access to like, wow, I really liked this guy.

I want to hang out with him. And in terms of working with a client, the questions, the simple question kind of becomes, could I have lunch with this guy? Could I hang out with this guy?

Now, obviously if you're selling trinkets, you don't need to worry about that. Um, but on the other hand, if you're selling services and you're dealing with human to human, you need to know who this guy, Dave Lorenzo is. You need to know that you can sit for lunch with him.

You need to know you can have a difficult conversation with him or a productive conversation that may not be the conversation we're thinking about in the moment. To your question, keep it simple, stupid.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah. And I, uh, that's such a great way to explain it to people. And I think you neutralize the first objection right at the outset of your answer to the question.

And I'm going to be, I'm not, I'm not Dave Lorenzo, your friend. Now I'm Dave Lorenzo, the devil's advocate for those people out there who want to engage Blitz be right. So Rick, can I really only spend a hundred dollars a month?

Really? I mean, cause Rick, everybody can afford a hundred dollars. And everybody that I meet with tells me that I have to have an ad budget of at least, I mean, I've heard list, you know, out of the role play for a minute.

I mean, I've heard, you know, uh, on the low end, 2,500 on the high end. Whoa, you got to spend $10,000 to drive enough. Like if you got me $10,000 worth of leads, I wouldn't be able to answer all the calls.

I wouldn't be able to take all the calls. So can you really only spend a hundred bucks?

[Speaker 2]
You want to think about what your goal is to determine what your budget is. If you can handle a lot of leads coming in because you have a system in play, including an AI agent to answer your phone, to distribute information, to set up that first phone call, then you can manage a lot of leads. You can manage a good amount of leads in a short amount of time to do some conversions.

So you have to consider, first of all, what is your goal? What can your system currently handle? You know, I deal with business owners, attorneys, just as an example, who are super excited to get some leads.

And then when we go through that process of, of, um, the practicality of getting the lead, they get, they freak out. They're like, I can't, I can't, I can't address that. You know, like I'm billable time.

I can't address that. Okay. Well, you have to have a system to address that.

So how does your system support bringing in those leads? So yes, you can have a hundred dollar budget. That would be very low.

You're going to have some trickle in, um, inquiries. You're going to have some trickle in traffic. What's the goal?

Do you want to grow by five clients a month? Do you want to grow by 25 clients a month? Like what's the, what is the reality of what you're able to fulfill on when it comes to reaching that audience?

Um, a hundred dollars would be a very low advertising budget, but yes, the important aspect of that is get people to your landing page, whatever your lead magnet is, that free thing you're giving away or into the conversation with you, so maybe you get three people in a month off of a hundred dollars. That could be enough. And that could be substantial for some providers because the contract could be worth 50 grand.

You know, it just depends on, again, what is the goal for that specific circumstance?

[Speaker 1]
So we talked to our clients about scaling their business and you're not the, the, the easiest way to scale your business. The easiest way is through advertising. Before you hire any salespeople, you should test your message with your market via the, via digital advertising.

It is, it is the quickest way to determine if your message is going to resonate with your market. And that leads me to my next point. So if I come to you, Rick, and I already have a message, so I'm a founder of a And I'm out there talking to people who look like my ideal client.

And I share a message with them. Hey, if you do this, you will get this. And they say, I want to hear more about that.

That's how we know the message is working, right? If I come to you with that, we are shortening, and I'm asking this as a question, we are shortening the process of getting to successful lead generation because you don't then have to figure it out. I don't, what I don't want is I don't want, Rick is really smart, but I don't want Rick to have to figure out how to talk to my clients.

I, I should know that. And I shouldn't go to Rick until I know that. Is that, is that a fair statement, Rick?

[Speaker 2]
Oh yeah. You're trimming the fats right from the get go. It's super powerful what you're saying.

Once you have the message down, it's easy to marry you with the person who's looking for you. It's complete, a completely different experience. Now, if you don't have that message down and we're trying to marry you with the person who's looking for a screwdriver, just as an example, then that person is still wondering like, okay, I got it that you're the person who sells a screwdriver, but is that the screwdriver that I want?

You know, I'm not really clear about what does the screwdriver do? I mean, besides the obvious. So is it a power screwdriver?

Is it a plugin? Is it battery? Is it Bluetooth?

You know, now maybe we can do it on our phones, something like that.

[Speaker 1]
Phillips head, flathead, long, short. I mean, you know, grip, you know, there's all kinds of different things. Yeah.

And it's, and that is probably the simplest example.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah. Yeah. And to your question then, you know, if that message is clear and we're marrying you to the audience, everything's kind of, kind of done, you know, like the person that can make a decision and they can make it quickly and that's what you want.

You want quick in and quick out in, into the market, out of the market, get in there, get, get the people communicate, trim the fat, and then have the, have the sale at the backend.

[Speaker 1]
So the, the biggest variable, so there's three variables in, in what you do in lead generation through particularly digital advertising, right? The variables are message, audience, and delivery. And if I come to you and I know who my ideal client is, and I can tell you, listen, I, I can point you to a dozen or more people who are, you know, and, and you can use that information and I can give you the message that I'm using right now.

That's working. We can test others, but I know I have one that's definitely working. I've given you two of three variables.

It's, it is, this couldn't be more scientific, right? If you're, if you're in sixth grade science and you're sitting there at your lab table and they say, we are going to do an experiment using the scientific method. You cannot change, you can't have three variables and hope to understand what will make that experiment successful.

If you control the first two variables and you only have to worry about the third, you're, you're on track. It's just a, it's a matter of time. That's the scientific method.

So when people come to you, I, and this, this, this frustrates me for you, right? When people come to you with zero knowledge of anything and they say to you, who, right, I got, I got all these marbles now find the red ones. And you're like, all right, well, it's going to take three months to sort through the 50,000 marbles that are here to get to the red ones.

If you had come to me with just red and blue, it would have taken me about a week, you know, to sort through the red ones. It was, I could, in fact, I could find you a red one right now while you're sitting here. If you came to me with red and blue, I can find you 20 red ones by the end of the week.

I can find you 200 red ones by the end of the month if I only got to figure out two. But if you got seven colors or 12 colors, it's going to take me a month to get to at least, you know, it's going to take me three weeks to get to one red one and take me a month to get you 10 red ones. So, you know, getting that down to the minimum number of variables is critical.

Now, like that's, that's the advertising part. The second part is there's, there's waste and the way that we can figure out how to make use of some of the stuff that spills over the edges of the ads. You talked about follow up.

Explain lead generation, a landing page and then follow up because getting those people, like having all those people call you is unproductive at the start because at the start, half of them or more are not going to be your ideal client. So what do we do? So we take these people.

Now, we've got the message and we've got the audience and the message is hitting home. We know you guys are doing a great job. You're getting the message in front of the right people.

Some of them are raising their hand and they're going, I need to hear more from Joe Smith, the estate planning attorney. What happens then?

[Speaker 2]
Oh, it's such a good one, estate planning attorney. So what I like to think about is once we gather that audience, we got to send them somewhere. So where we're sending them is a landing page.

I like video landing pages and I like the video on the top of the page where the estate planning attorney is able to introduce themselves, share a client problem that they've solved and connect with the audience. Really, really simple. And then the person has an opportunity to see the humanity and also connect with their particular circumstance through the client's, the client's story.

From that moment, there's an invitation for that person to take an action. And it could be a couple of different things. Is it to the next sales?

We'll call it a video sales letter. Is it the next video landing page where the person says, you know, here's, you know, I don't know exactly, like what's the strategy for the estate planning attorney? So the next strategy they're going to present through video and say, you know, you might have some transitions happening in your family.

And so this is how you can think of that. Step one, step two, step three, and then, you know, connect with me below. So the process really is where is that audience going to?

It's going to a video sales letter, information gathering, opportunity to get into that person's calendar for that one on one conversation. But depending on the circumstance, I often feel like it's really important to put some filters in place. You know, a survey is a simple way through the calendar entry to get are they qualified to see me?

How do they qualify to see me in the first place? What is their budget? What is the problem they're trying to solve?

Does it align with what I'm up to? Or is that a referral, a place to where I can just send them to a different place in the strategy so I can give them a referral? Those things are easy to set up and they're easy, quote, I'm saying easy, meaning they can be unencumbered.

And they're also a great way to trim the fat. You don't need people in your calendar who don't fit you, but we don't often think of that. I have a lot of clients who say to me, no, no, no, no.

I want to talk to everybody. And I always put that forward. Like, what if they can't afford you?

Do you still want to talk to them? Well, what if they want chocolate, but you only sell vanilla? Do you still want to talk to them?

And oftentimes for the older, like our generation above, oftentimes, yes, they still want to talk to them. It gives them a sense of feeling in control with who's seeing them and interacting with their stuff. Unfortunately, it's not a good use of time.

So you want to figure out how do we how do we just work through the audience before they ever get into my calendar?

[Speaker 1]
So, yeah, I think that's a great point. And I'm one of those people, when we first set this up, right, so I have a couple of different lead magnets that I use on a landing page. And when we first set this up, I don't I don't have them go right to me.

I have them. Usually I'm an old school guy, so I usually have them opt in to get like a short PDF. But it's on a it's on a topic that I know resonates with them because I've tested it out through a live speaking engagement.

Right. So I offer the topic as a lead. I offer the item as a lead magnet and a live speaking engagement.

People respond to it. So then I put it on a landing page. But what I like to do in the very beginning is as soon as they opt in, I always make it required to capture best phone number.

And the reason is because I don't I don't want them. They're not going to hit my calendar because they don't want to be sold to. But I'll call them and I'll say, hey, it's Dave calling.

And they're always shocked when it's actually me. Right. Hey, it's Dave calling.

And I saw you just downloaded like I have one that's the revenue roadmap guide. So I saw you just downloaded the revenue roadmap guide. I just want to check and make sure the PDF came through.

OK, can you check your inbox for me? And they'll say, oh, thank you so much for calling. Sure.

Hold on a sec. They'll check their inbox and then I'll say I got one quick question for you. What was it that made you want to download this?

What's the problem that you're trying to solve? And Rick, that's so important because that helps me adjust the the information on the landing page and what the maybe the podcast episode or the video that's on YouTube that I'm using to drive them to the landing page. So for me, when we first put up that land and listen, I'm a I'm a guy who like I like the scientific process.

Right. And, you know, maybe you guys do this on their behalf. You'll reach out and call them and ask those questions.

But for me, like I want to I want to get the message so that I know that like one out of every two conversations is somebody that I can either put in an event or sell a low ticket item so that we can get them into our process of developing the relationship. And this is and I want you to speak to this. This is all about starting the relationship off on the right foot.

I think when we think of lead generation as, you know, I got to I got to, you know, capture people or I got to in some way trick them to get them on my list so that I can bombard them with 50 messages. The way to look at this is you're you're you've got like a little bunny rabbit and you're trying to you got a little carrot with a piece of peanut butter on it and you're trying to get the bunny rabbit to come over, not so you can whack him and cut his head off, but so you can pet him and, you know, bring him into your house and add him to your family of pets. You're not trying to bring the bunny rabbit over because you want a rabbit's foot.

So talk about how you're trying to bring people into your community of clients and you're trying to you know, that's what you're trying to do. You're not you're not trying to you can you can you can shear a sheep a dozen times, but you can only skin them once. We're not here trying to skin the sheep.

We're trying to get the wool and feed the sheep so that the sheep grows and gets fat and happy and continues to produce wool. Talk about what we're trying to do here. We're trying to develop relationships.

[Speaker 2]
That's so good. It's such a great question. And and for all the sheep out there that we're shearing, thank you for the lovely sweaters in my closet.

Right. And we will continue to feed you and make you happy and fat and joyful. Yes, that is key.

What you said right there is key because the key is providing value, bringing those people into your world and then providing value. As soon as they experience value, they're going to experience, oh, I want to come back into this relationship and perhaps go deeper. So how do you create those experiences?

Well, you can do that online by hosting a 15, 25, 30 minute event where you're doing some level of training, some simple training. You can do it through social events. You know, we do happy hours, we do pop up happy hours as one of our strategies and so on and so forth, marrying them with other people who they need to be connected to that they just don't know as a resource.

Key is providing value and figuring out creatively how can I provide value to the greatest amount of people in the shortest amount of time, but providing a wow factor. It's not just a quick wash like, oh, I did it. But if I have 30 people in the room, how do I follow up those 30 people, get them into the room, provide value, and then follow up later and continue to provide value?

There's so much education and training from all of us in whatever our role is for our clients and why they want to work with us, what the solutions are that we provide, what's the value. But I'll actually say I'm so like the universe just threw this at me. Like people hire you for your medicine.

The natives would say people hire you for your medicine. What is your energy? What is that constellation of energy?

Because everyone's not a fit for you, regardless of whether you can solve their problem or not. They're not a fit for you. You're not a fit for them.

And you're better served to move into an audience where your energy works together. Sorry, I just had to get that in there.

[Speaker 1]
No, I completely I completely agree with you. I have I have a weekly call. So there's two clients in an exit success lab.

Now we we have a community of professionals that serve our community of business owners. So I have two people that I work with. There's three companies that I work with that are still from the old days of me having a solo consulting practice.

And I have weekly calls with with two of these people. And on those weekly calls, if somebody comes to me, if one of those two people comes to me in a crabby mood, I'm like, listen, and the one of the one of those calls is today. It's the first first thing on a Monday morning.

This gentleman, Pat Murphy, for those of you who've listened, he's been on the show a number of times. Wonderful person. And I've known him for 17 years.

I've known him longer than I've had my children. And I actually I've known him for 30 years. He's been my client for 17.

And he always comes to me on Monday morning. And the reason I schedule him on Monday mornings, he's always in a good mood. He brings he brings issues and we solve the issues together.

But he's always he's look, he's he's a fantastic guy. He's an executive with a payment company and he's always in a great mood. And we tackle these problems together.

And the call always ends with him saying, this has been great. I'm really clear on what I need to do. And he he feels good.

I feel good because I've helped him. And that's the it's because of the energy he brings to the call. Now, contrast that with the other person who I will not name who comes to the call and every week it's like he's chicken little.

Every week the sky is falling and there is no way every week can be an absolute disaster. So so this person I have to schedule at the end of the day toward the end of the week so that I can, you know, I stop drinking. But when I used to drink, I would be like I would be pouring a drink as we had 10 minutes left in the call because there was no way I could handle this.

Like, you know, after this, after this call, I like go walk the dogs. I get outside. I don't talk to anybody because I got to clear my head.

It's just the you you are. You're so right when it comes to the energy level that you bring. So, you know, and we kind of brought things full circle.

When you come to your clients, if you come to your clients with an attitude of, listen, I am here to help you. So let's look for solutions rather than lament about the problem. It's important to understand what the problem is.

But we're here to bring solutions. All right. So the final phase of this, Rick, that I want to talk to you about now.

And it's it's a little bit about provisors, but a lot about business development in general. Right. So you and I are both cut from the same cloth in that we spend a lot of time talking to people, listening, helping solve problems, connecting people with one another.

How do you and I've never asked you this question, so I'm really curious about the answer. How do you decide when you draw the line and you say, OK, this is where the you know, the value delivery for free ends. And this is where we have to talk about how to compensate me for the value that I'm providing.

How do you as somebody who you give an enormous amount of value to people, how do you decide where to draw that line?

[Speaker 2]
You know, it's super a really wonderful question for every one of us as providers of some level of service to really consider. On the one hand, you know, it is about following your gut. Like what is your gut telling you to do?

How is it that you're being guided to move through the experience? Everybody wants something for free and everybody's broke. Like just as a as a fundamental aspect to every conversation, nobody has any money and everybody wants it for free.

That's no offense to a listener. It's just a matter of a mindset that we bring to conversations often as a habit, not even as a mindful a point of mindfulness. So how do I move through that?

I follow my gut and I also lead a horse to water. Like I'm a good I do hone that skill of like, OK, we need to get to the water. You need to drink the water.

When you drink the water, it may still be all over your face. Some is going to get down. But with a little bit of practice, you're going to drink that water.

It's just not going to be a mess. And then I'm going to let you go to the water by yourself. You know, like so it is a bit of weaning.

It's a bit of training. It's a bit of reinforcing that people can move into the paid experience. They do have the resource.

I think it's important to show people what the value is, like what's the value of working together. These are some of the expectations you can consider. You can't guarantee an outcome.

You can't guarantee revenue. None of us have a crystal ball, even though everyone who puts money in once that, you know, it doesn't it doesn't life doesn't work that way. With mature business owners, they know that and they understand that.

But even still, you know, sometimes you get a little bit of funny, you know, kind of funny expectations. But communication is key. I'm a really straight talker, which some people aren't interested in.

Other people really appreciate it. I consider that as part of trimming the fat. I don't want to waste your energy.

I don't want you wasting mine. And I think you always have to look at, is there value? Am I providing value?

Sometimes in providing free stuff to someone while you're providing free stuff, the value that you're providing is not good because you're training someone that they're going to go out into the world and they're going to consider everything's for nothing and they're not going to get the resource they really need. And they're not getting the information that's real or true. And so they're living in a spin that does not reflect reality.

So that is a real important for me. That's a very important thing to consider is how am I training the next guy? How am I training that client for the next guy or for the next experience?

You know, we are always, I think it's Eleanor Roosevelt who said this, that we are always training people how to treat us, and so we have to consider what is the training I'm giving to that person in the moment when I'm always giving stuff for free. There's a real, there's a real opportunity to look at ourselves in that because, you know, sometimes we come from a poverty mindset. I've been broke a thousand times in life as well, as you said earlier.

And so we can feel fearful and having an honest conversation with someone around like, hey, this has been a really great experience. And if you want to move forward, you know, this is the fee associated. How can I serve you?

It can be a really simple conversation, though, and it can sound just like that.

[Speaker 1]
Yeah, no, I completely agree with you. And this is and the reason I said I brought up Provisors and our, you know, our listeners, Nicola and I do a show every Wednesday and we talk a lot about Provisors because that's how we met each other. You and I both met each other as well in Provisors.

The best relationships I have in my adult life have come from Provisors. But the you know, the Provisor is evil twin is the is the the expectation that because it's a relationship based organization and because most of us provide intellectual property, most of us provide what's between our ears as our service. There is an expectation that some sometimes we you know, what we do is is publicly accessible and we shouldn't charge for it.

And I think. I think having that conversation up front and saying, here's what I would like to do. I would like to I'm going to ask you these questions.

I'm going to make these three introductions because I want to develop a relationship with you. And I want you to understand that I'm developing that relationship because I don't have an expectation that you and I are going to work together. But I think you might know someone who could work with me at some point.

So after I make these three introductions, I'm going to tell you a little bit about my service and how I think about it. And the investment required. I don't want you to think I'm asking you for that money.

But if you know someone who needs this value, here's what I do, here's how I do it. And for some people, I even want them to come to to see me do that. And I will invite them to come and see me do that for free.

And I say to them, I'm inviting you to come see me do this for free because I know you run in the same circles as people who look like my ideal clients. That's, you know, that's the reason why. I think when we're clear about if we're doing something for free, the reason why we're doing it, I think it makes it a little bit easier.

I, you know, I will tell you that improvisers, I've never had somebody ask me to do something for them for free. But I have had people take offense when I say to them, OK, well, you know, I'm happy to do that for you. You know, that's what we do.

But it's X. And when my X is double the cost of what someone who claims to do what I do, who's talked to them in the past and they say, well, that's like double what so and so charges, you know, they they take offense because they think either because of our relationship, I shouldn't get the value that I deserve or they somehow are comparing me to someone who probably doesn't do exactly what I do or provide the same value. So, you know, you can be clear up front and there can still be misunderstanding. And I just find and I'm looking to you for, you know, your your sage wisdom here.

Whenever money gets involved, people get really strange. And money is just a way of demonstrating this is the value the world has assigned to the value that I provide. I wouldn't charge it if people didn't pay it.

Right. So I'm not I'm not using it as a club to beat you over the head. I'm just telling you that this is people that people pay me this because they tell me it's worth it.

So that's what I'm charging.

[Speaker 2]
Yeah, that's a really great conversation. You know, I call it pushing an elephant up a hill. And I already have a couple of elephants.

I push up the hill. I'm not looking for another one. And and that mindset has to marry the other mindset.

You know, it's a real question to say to someone, well, what's the value of this? Like what is the what's what is the average annual income of a client? What's the what's the outcome of having sold this business properly and, you know, exit success?

What's the value of this strategy running in your business today versus never running? Or what's the value of working with this quality of people versus that quality of people? Those are real conversations and real frustrations that you are describing when someone might take offense to a price tag.

Now, that's also a data point because that is a gift, meaning there's no need to work with that mindset when that mindset is what's going to run the relationship. It might show up as a financial conversation today, but it's going to show up as a human resource conversation tomorrow. It's going to show up as a marketing conversation tomorrow.

It's going to show up as a sales conversation tomorrow. So I pay attention to the mindset and I'm a straight talker and I'm straight with myself as much as I'm straight with everyone else. And I appreciate just that if that's the mindset I'm running into, I recognize I approach it as a question.

Do I want to work with that mindset? Is there value there for me or do I not want to work with that mindset? Anything that drags your energy pulls you away from the next thing.

So if you're saying yes to one thing, you're saying no to another thing. So if that's the mindset I'm saying yes to, then I have to be thoughtful and reflective of how I actually decide to engage when that mindset shows up. I'm not sure if I answered your question.

[Speaker 1]
No, no, I think I think you're I think you did, and that leads me to another point in this regard. And that's something that I learned as I've matured in sales and in business. And that's talking about how long, you know, how long we need to be committed in order to get a result.

I've discovered just actually, you know, and I'm too old to be just discovering this now, but thank goodness I just discovered it, my minimum level of commitment for something to bring something new into my business is a year. If I cannot dabble, because when we dabble in stuff, that's a sign that we're not committed. And the first time you do anything, and I say this all the time to my clients, some get offended and they become ex-clients.

It's like sex. The first time you do it, you're going to suck. And you're you know, it's going to be over really, really quick.

If that's if that's all, if that's all you're planning on investing, you're going to be awful. It'll be a quick experience and you will never do it again. OK, so here's the mindset you need to have.

I am going to do this until I get it right or for a year, because if you can't figure that out in a year, you got bigger problems. Right. So for me and I and this is the thing.

Right. I didn't learn that about. I learned that when I was 16 about sex.

Right. OK. Sorry, mom.

I don't know if you knew that. But, you know, the the thing about anything in business is you've got to be committed for the long term. And for me, in my mind, I approach things very differently with a different level of let's call it strategic patience when I know I'm committed to doing something for a year.

OK, we're going to do videos. Great. We're going to do two videos a week, but we're going to do it for a year.

All right. So if this one sucks, I know I got another opportunity in a day. And if that sucks, I know I got two more opportunities next week.

And those are going to suck a little bit less. But I'm going to you know, I'm going to eventually stop sucking because I got a year to figure this out. And I have that conversation with every prospect.

And you know what? When I tell clients this, this is the conversation you got to have with your client, with your with your prospects, Mr. or Mrs. Client, they're like, well, Dave, it's like drug testing. Right.

Oh, I lose all the best candidates. OK, you know, I lose I lose all the best prospects. No, you lose all the crappy prospects.

You lose the prospects that were going to be with you for three weeks. Do you want their money for three weeks or do you want their money for a year? Do you want somebody who's delighted and got a huge amount of value?

Or do you want somebody who after three weeks goes, I don't know if that guy knows what they're talking about. I tried it for three weeks and it didn't work. Do you do the same thing up front with your folks when you talk to them?

[Speaker 2]
Yes, a little. Yes. Similarly, we we really say to everyone, we enter every relationship for the next 20 years and we think about being in relationship for the next 20 years.

Now, we may not work together formally in that entire time frame, but we we think of every single relationship as a 20 year relationship. And that's not a countdown on the clock, because tomorrow it starts again 20 years and next week it's still 20 years and a month later, still 20 years. And what happens is that as that conversation is happening, people really open up a little bit because they start to realize like, oh, you know, like I've lived in Chicago for 30, almost 30 years.

I'm not going anywhere. And so the people that I'm meeting and in business, I've been, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, not going anywhere. And so while the problem you're solving today might not be the problem you're solving tomorrow, it could take a year to solve that problem.

It could take five years to solve that problem. But listen, we're in a 20 year relationship. There's no rush to rush through this.

We don't have to rush in. We don't have to rush out. But let's put some strategies together around how do we nurture the relationship and then let's get deeper and deeper into what are the problems you're trying to solve.

And looking at that as a constellation, one problem might be the threat of a sweater that you pull and the whole thing falls apart so that you can rebuild the thing that needs to be rebuilt. And on the other hand, sometimes we, you know, from the as an outsider looking in, we see the problem completely differently, which means it might be a lot more complex than they know. It might be a lot more simple because there's no drama.

We don't bring any drama to that. We're just bringing our perspective.

[Speaker 1]
All right, Rick. So we need to we need to continue this. I want to talk about AI.

I wish we spent more time talking about Pride Month. Maybe what I'll do, maybe I'll do. You know what?

We're going to do this. We're going to do a Pride Month special. We will we'll get a couple of you know, we'll get a panel together and we'll talk about we'll talk about Pride Month because you and I both believe in diversity.

We believe that we should you know, our business should look like the community we serve. I believe that I'm a better person when there are people who are like me and people who are not like me for whatever reason around. I always learn something when I'm around people who are different than me.

So I think what we'll do is we'll get like a panel of people together. Maybe in the next week or so, two weeks we'll have a Pride Month discussion where you can all you know, we can all educate each other, we can all learn from each other. But for right now, I'm really glad we talked about lead generation today and I also want to talk to you about AI, which we can do another time.

How can people get a hold of you if they they want to have a conversation about lead generation in their business? What's the best way for people to engage Rick Hayhurst or Blitzby?

[Speaker 2]
Do you know? Probably hit me up on LinkedIn or Blitzby-marketing.com, Blitzby-marketing.com. Those would be two easy ways for people to get a hold of you.

[Speaker 1]
All right. So we're going to put we're going to put that in the show notes when we put the fully edited version of this on YouTube, we'll put it on YouTube and you can reach out to Rick if you want to get a hold of Rick and you can't figure out how to get a hold of him. Well, I mean, you probably you know, you probably have some mental challenges, but you can call me and I will connect you with Rick.

It'd be my pleasure to connect you with Rick. Rick, thank you for joining us today on this edition of the Inside BS show. It was a true pleasure.

[Speaker 2]
Thank you so much, Dave. Awesome to be with you as always.

[Speaker 1]
All righty, folks, that'll do it for this edition of the Inside BS show. If you're watching on YouTube, another video will pop up with an interview with another great guest. In fact, what I'm going to do is I'm going to share the interview with Dave Oates.

He's a fantastic crisis communication strategist. That'll be the video that you see right now. It's probably directly under me or maybe it's directly under Rick.

Click on that. Watch that video right now. If you're listening to us on the audio program through any place where you get your podcasts, you need to go to YouTube, go to my name, just type in my name, Dave Lorenzo on YouTube.

Check out Rick is so handsome. You got to check him out on YouTube. You want to see this guy.

He's fantastic. All right, folks, that'll do it for this edition of the Inside BS show. Thank you for joining me today.

I will see you right back here again tomorrow.