How do you spot a fake guru? Join us on today's Inside VS Show. I'm Nikki G, this is the Inside VS Show, and I'm here with Dave Lorenzo, the godfather of growth. Dave, how are you? I don't know.

Let's see how this show goes. I'll let you know at the end. Alright, what do you got about fake gurus, Nikki G? Oh, you're gonna like this one, Dave.

So, unfortunately, there are a lot of coaches out there these days that are selling dreams, and we want to explore for our audience how they can spot a fake guru and weed them out so that if they really do need to engage a professional, that they are engaging one that is legitimate. Yeah, I know, and I get it. Here's the thing, okay? I've had a coach since I've been on my own.

So I went out on my own in 2006, 2007, and Alan Weiss is a great consulting mentor. He's been a terrific mentor to me. I've worked with him over the years that entire time, and he has really helped accelerate my progress.

I've worked with other people in specific areas, people who had specific expertise, for example, in copywriting. I worked with somebody in speaking to improve my speaking style when I first went out on my own. In comedy, I worked with a number of people who coached me up to help me become better at comedy.

In media, I worked with a media coach to help me get better at performing on camera or performing on the radio. I worked with a writing coach when I was learning how to write better articles and books. So coaches are accelerants.

They can shortcut your route to success. But, as Nikki G points out, there are a lot of people out there who use all kinds of shady tactics to just get your money and provide no value in return. So for me, the first thing I look at, and I am very skeptical when I see this, is a website or a video that focuses on the Lamborghini or the private jet.

It doesn't focus on who the person is and what they've done. It focuses on all the trappings of success. So you see them in a helicopter, and the helicopter lands, and they walk over to their Lamborghini, and they drive their Lamborghini to the airport to get on their private jet.

Why didn't they just take the helicopter to the airport? Because they wanted to show you the helicopter, the Lamborghini, and the private jet. Because if you listen to their advice and you buy their $1,999 business in a box, you will become the next person who has the helicopter, the Lamborghini, and the private jet. Legitimate coaches, people who know what they're doing, the first thing they focus on is you and the results that you want.

And then they decide if they can help you get the results that you want. So the people who you see on TV with the Lamborghini, the helicopter, and the private jet, or the people that you see pop up in your Facebook news feed with the problem statement immediately, you know, can't sleep, worried about paying next month's power bill, you need to come and sell XYZ product because selling XYZ product will make you a millionaire and you'll never worry about paying your electric bill again. You know, the Lamborghini, the helicopter, the private jet, people who are legitimate gurus may own those, but that's not the first thing they throw in your face.

The first thing they throw in your face is something that's of value to you. What do you think, Nikki G? That's right. Don't fall for the Lamborghini.

It is smoke and mirrors. If they have something of value to add to you, they do not need to win you over with flash. You know, the next thing when it comes to fake gurus is they lead with emotionally manipulative language.

You'll find that a fake guru will take good copywriting to the extreme. So listen, I've got nothing against making sure you connect with someone on an emotional level. That's how we buy everything from soap to cars to vacation homes.

You buy things because you make an emotional connection with the person, you make an emotional connection with what the product can do for you. I get it. But a guru will take that emotionally manipulative language to the extreme.

Nicola, I'm going to give you a great example of that. So one of my clients is a real estate attorney here in Miami, and there is a lawyer success guru who many of our listeners, many of our viewers will recognize. I'm not going to use his name, but when I describe this, you'll probably recognize the scenario.

So this lawyer success guru does a seminar, and the lawyer success guru has become very successful over the years at doing these seminars. And he's a person who had a law firm, but the law firm failed. And then the lawyer success guru went on to become an executive with a local bar association, and then he became someone who would teach lawyers how to be successful.

I'm not sure how 1 plus 1 equals 2 there, but the lawyer success guru does a seminar. And my friend, my client, real estate attorney, goes to the lawyer success guru's seminar. And at the end, the lawyer success guru offers a free consultation, but he calls it a discovery call.

So my buddy gets on the discovery call with the lawyer success guru, and the lawyer success guru says to him, you know, let's call him Joe. That's not his real name. Joe, if you don't learn how to do business development, your wife is going to leave you.

You'll never be able to provide for your kids. You'll be destitute. You will fail miserably.

That's emotionally manipulative language. Now, if the lawyer success guru had a good sales system and the lawyer success guru wanted Joe to buy from him, my approach would be, Joe, tell me about what you're looking to accomplish in the next 5 years. Joe would say that, and then I would say, here's what we're going to work on together that will help you get the things that you want in the next 5 years.

In addition to that, you'll never have to be concerned about these other things, but using language that's emotionally manipulative is a high-pressure tactic that these people use when their products or their services perhaps aren't going to be the best fit. The second thing that these people do that's emotionally manipulative is when their products or their services don't work for you, they'll turn it around and they'll say, it's because you didn't do what I told you to do, or they'll say, you just didn't try hard enough. And these techniques are old techniques developed from televangelists, people who are on TV who used to bilk people out of money for donations for their fake churches.

And what they would tell them is, if you donate $1,000 right now, God will be so pleased with you. He will make things happen in your life that you never imagined possible. We need to build a new church.

We need that $1,000. Please, God, and donate that $1,000. And then when you donate the $1,000 and the things don't happen in your life the way they're supposed to, they will tell you, you didn't pray hard enough, right? Emotionally manipulative language is a huge tell for a fake guru.

Nikki G., what do you think? A good fake guru is good at manipulation, right? This isn't that different than the next Ponzi scheme of a person who's trying to sell you something and they are very good at preying on your emotions. They're doing this intentionally because they know it is a skill set that they've developed. So you've got to watch out for the manipulation.

Do not assume it is you in these circumstances. Remember, you're the customer. You are the one who's considering engaging this person as a professional, you would hope.

But if they're a guru, they're going to be focused on if it's not working, it's about you. No, it's not. They should be addressing that issue where it is not about you.

It is about them. 100%, 100%. What do you use to spot a fake guru? Give us a tip that you use all the time to spot somebody who's not what they say they are.

Ah, you know what? Here's what I love. I love selling the dream instead of the process or the skill set to get there, right? We've heard it. I can make you the next fill in the blank.

It could be, you know, if we're talking about sports, it could be I'll make you the next Serena Williams, you know, or it could be I'm going to make you the next, you know, head of succession. If you are on the receiving end of someone simply selling you the dream, then they're not communicating to you how they would actually get you there. And if they're not clear about what that process is and what you would need to do in order to achieve what you're talking about with them, then it's fake and it's an easy way to spot it.

They should be able to explain this to you. That's the value that they should be providing to you is you can't just tell someone I'm going to make you the next. You don't know that you can.

You can show them the process, but that person still will have to implement it. And if they're not capable of doing it, if they're not willing to do it, then they absolutely can't get you there. So watch for that where they're trying to really just sell you on what the outcome is going to be without really giving you the roadmap to get there.

I love it. And if they're hesitant to give you the roadmap, but you still have bought into them, maybe it's because of their personality. Maybe they're very charismatic.

What you can do is you can say, just give me some references. Give me some references. I want to talk to people who you've worked with, who you've helped become successful.

I also want to talk with people who are no longer your clients. So you can give me some current clients. Also give me one or two people who are no longer your clients or people who worked with you, they had success and they moved on.

Me personally, my whole sales process centers around getting the person to a current client and a former client. And why do I want them to do that? The current clients and the former clients sell me way harder than I would ever sell myself. The current clients will tell them, you got to work with this guy.

He will transform your business and it will improve your life. The former clients will say, I worked with this guy and here's what he did. And here's how he transformed my life.

And oh, by the way, I still call him from time to time and he's happy to take my call. And he's always willing to help me out. If they can't give you references of people who are current clients or people who are former clients run the other way.

A tactic that these fake gurus use all the time is high pressure. The price changes tomorrow. You got to sign up right now.

You know, the scarcity program where there's only one slot left that works and it's fine if it's a specific event. But if you're investing sizable money to work with someone over a significant period of time, like a year, they will be more than happy. If they're real to introduce you to a current client, introduce you to a former client, let you come to an event just to see what it's like.

You pay your way there, but you come to the event to see what it's like or pay for a consultation. Do one consultation with the person to see what it's like to actually work with them. Legitimate people who are consultants, who are coaches will be fine with all of those options.

Ask them about them. Ask them if you can do that. One of the things that I do all the time when I'm working with big companies is if they have an incumbent, somebody who does what I do, I'll say, pit me up against them.

Let's get two teams. I'll work with team A, let the other person work with team B, and whoever wins gets the year long contract. I have no problem doing that.

You know why? Because what I do works and I'm happy to have my process, my system pitted up against somebody else. You know what else I do that I love? That fake gurus won't do? If it's permissible in an industry, I will make a portion of my fee contingent upon the success of the other person. If you want to give me equity in your business, if I believe in your business and I believe you're a good CEO, you can run a good business, I'll take a portion of my compensation in equity.

A fake guru won't do that. They need today's cash to pay yesterday's bills. A legitimate guru will take a portion of the compensation in cash, and they'll take a portion of the compensation as a success fee.

Now, I got to warn you, if you opt for the success fee option, in the long run it's going to cost you a lot more because I'm going to ask for a lot more on the back end. It's always cheaper to pay cash up front, but I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is. I don't mind putting skin in the game.

I don't mind using whatever cliche you want to use. I know what I'm doing. I believe in what I'm doing.

The fake gurus will never do that. What do you think, Nikki G? I love when you use that example of, you know, put me up against my competitor, and I'm going to show you what I'm going to do, and you're going to beat them. That demonstrates that you are fully confident in what you are providing.

There's transparency there, and the fact you're willing to put skin in the game screams not a fake guru. A fake guru is not going to be willing to be that transparent about anything. While they don't need to go that far, as what you've described, if they are getting a little bit hesitant about what you're asking them to tell you about, there's a problem, right? And especially when they're asking for, and they often are, a significant sum of money for you to attend some conference or sign up for some sort of service that they're providing.

You ought to be able to ask these questions, and if there's any hesitation, that's a problem. And, you know, so that whole competition thing came up because I wish I could tell you, like I thought of it on my own. So here's the story behind that, and I don't think I've ever told you the full story about the first time I ever did that.

So there's a law firm in the mid-Atlantic, and actually they have an office in California, they have an office in New York and North and South Carolina, now they're growing like crazy, named Offit Kerman. And one of the folks in the learning and development department at Offit Kerman had watched all my YouTube videos on my original YouTube channel, and they called me and they said, hey, we're creating this program for people who are new to the firm to teach them how to originate business, okay? Now for those of you who are not familiar, originate is the term for sales in law firm parlance. Law firms and lawyers other than Nikki G, they hate the word sales.

So they say we're gonna originate a new relationship, right? More words, same outcome, it's selling. So they're developing this origination program and they asked me to send them a proposal. So I schedule a call with the president of the firm, with the name partners of the firm and the person who heads up legal operations.

And we're on the call, I take down all the information. And I tell them upfront point blank, if you're gonna have me do this for 180 lawyers, it's gonna be about $300,000. And they fell out of their chair.

They thought it was ridiculously expensive because they had a Sandler sales trainer. The Sandler selling system is a good system for people who want to learn hardcore sales techniques. They had a Sandler sales trainer who was willing to do it for much less.

So I said to them, here's what we'll do. Give the Sandler guy 10 people. I'll take 10 people and I will take whatever you're paying the Sandler guy.

I'm gonna put you on the honor system. Whatever you're paying the Sandler guy, I'll take those 10 people and let us go for a year. And whoever develops more business over the course of a year will get the entire contract.

But if I get the contract, I get the contract at my rates. I don't get it at the Sandler rates. If you'll agree to that, I'll do it.

And they said, fine. I blew out the Sandler trainer in six months. At the end of six months, they gave me a second group of 10 people.

And that second group they gave me on a prorated basis at my rates. And by the end of the year, they had me in to design the entire program for everyone in the firm. And they eventually took my content and they're now delivering my content internally at their firm on their own to everybody else.

So I taught them how to do it. They took the content, licensed it for me and they're now delivering it to other people just the way I would deliver it because they've grown so much so quickly. But I got that business specifically because I was willing to take the Pepsi challenge and go up against somebody else and show what I was willing to do.

A fake guru is never gonna do that. Never ever gonna do that. All right, Nikki G, you got another point you wanna make about this.

What is it about fake gurus that will enable us to spot them? Another good one is when you ask about how they became successful, they are evasive or vague and they try to deflect and talk about something else, right? Dave, I like this because anytime I've heard someone ask you what your background is, you immediately will tell them you built five businesses. I can almost name them at this point, right? But they're real and you should be able to rattle them off if your experience, right, has now been what has gotten you to what you are selling other people. So what's great is ask them about their background.

If they're hesitant, you know there's a problem. And also ask if you can be introduced to others. That's something else, Dave, that you do really well is let me tell you, here's what I've done in my background.

You put real numbers to it. You put the names of the companies, exactly what the services or products were. And then you say, and here's people I've worked with.

I'm happy to make those connections, right? Those are successful businesses. Of course you want potential clients reaching out to them because that's going to be a great voice for you when they connect with those people. So if there's any hesitation on the part of the person that you are considering hiring, you need to recognize that as they are trying to sell you something fake.

Yeah, I love that. And thank you for saying those kind words. I use, I name drop whenever I can because I've gotten permission from my clients to do so.

And I'm proud of what I accomplished, right? So you can look back at my background and you can talk to anybody who was at Marriott when I started the executive stay brand and took it from startup to 50 million in three years. I can point you to the people who are on my executive team. They're all successful now.

They'll tell you about the days when we took it from startup to 50 million. I can talk to, you can talk to the people who worked with me at Gallup when we blew the doors off of Gallup, took it from startup to sky high profits and revenue in six years, right? You can talk to all those folks as well. They're still out there.

I can give you my clients because I'm still friends with them from when I worked with them at Gallup. They're all senior executives in Fortune 500 companies today. I'm happy to make those connections because I'm proud of the work that I've done and they're proud of the relationship they have with me so they'll actually take those calls.

All right, so a couple of things that you should take away from our time together today. If they're a fake guru, they have no tangible history of success as Nikki G just said, but also the fake guru should also be humble enough and vulnerable enough to admit what they've done wrong. Oftentimes I earn my money as much or even more from saving people from making really bad mistakes that I've made.

I almost earn as much money from doing that as I do from enabling their success to get them to the next level. I am a pioneer in many areas. Real coaches, real consultants are a pioneer in many areas and the reason they're called pioneers is because the pioneers who settled America took a lot of arrows in their back, right? I've taken the arrows in my back so you don't have to and that should be one of the biggest benefits of working with a coach or a consultant.

They accelerate your success in two ways. They see things you can't because they've been there and they've done that and they also prevent you from making mistakes that they made. So when you're talking with one of these gurus and you ask them, hey, you know, tell me about a failure you had.

It's almost like in your world, Nicola, asking a trial lawyer, hey, tell me about a case you lost and a trial lawyer says, I never had a trial I lost. I've never lost a trial. That's got to be a moment of pause because that tells you one of two things, right? They've either not tried a lot of cases or they're full of crap because if you try enough cases, you're going to lose.

If you're in business long enough, you're going to make mistakes. I've seen a lot. I still make mistakes, but I record them.

I learn from them and I help my clients keep from making those same mistakes. What do you think? Absolutely. There's a lot of good lawyers, including myself, that will tell you if you haven't made mistakes right, then you haven't really grown.

Some of the best lessons we've learned as lawyers come from, unfortunately, making some mistakes or not doing things as great as we can, but you don't know that until you've been through it. That really shows your experience. Experience matters.

When you're hiring a lawyer, you would ask, right, what experience do you have handling these types of cases? When you're hiring a potential coach, you want to know what is your actual experience? Tell me about it. Describe to me people you've worked with. Show me what you've achieved with them.

They can't describe it. They can't get you there. They are a fake guru.

If you enjoyed today's show, watch or listen to another episode of Bring Your Every Business Today. This is the Inside BS Show. I'm Nikki G. And you are? I am Dave Lorenzo, the godfather of growth.

We'll see you tomorrow.